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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: Igntion Switches |
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7/21/2008
Hello Skip, You wrote: "I saw the referenced ACS Keyed Ignition Switches
and a starter switch. What is the benefit in two switches over one?"
I am glad you asked. The history of these types of ignition
switches:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php
does not fill one with great confidence. See:
http://tinyurl.com/j3m5j
They are mechanical devices, of not necessarily the highest quality -- sort
of like an old time watch -- with a lot of little bits and pieces inside
that can get worn / broken.
Actually I'd prefer three switches. A simple, reliable, separate toggle
switch for each magneto P lead, and a push button switch with a guard on it
for activating the starter contact solenoid.
See the postings copied below for other's experience with the ACS / Bendix
keyed type switches.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
--------------------------------------------
{#} Replies are directed back to kisbuilders(at)angus.mystery.com
{#} To reply to the author, write to Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
OC
I started with the standard ACS switch , but junked it after it left one
of
the mags live after switching off , now I also have 3 seperate switches ( 2
"heavy duty" for the mags and a "push to make" type for the starter ).
-----------------------------------------------------------
Message: #19408
Date: Aug 16, 2004
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <rnuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: ACS switch issues for Rotax 912S
| Quote: |
Ok, I traced it down to the ACS ignition switch (P/N A-510-2). When I
switch to the left side ("R") it will cut out sometimes. Not very often
but if I do it just right then off she goes. The switch only had been
used about 40 hours when this started showing up.
It appears that it is grounding, or at least partially grounding,
inadvertently when switched over to that "mag".
Could it have to do with the diode issue that ACS mentions with regards to
impulse coupled mags?
|
The diode was added to the starter contactor control circuit . . .
with totally bogus engineering behind it. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
| Quote: | FWIW I've wired according to Bob's notes with the shield acting as the
ground. I was very very careful when wiring and so far this is the only
electrical problem I've had.
I've also wiggled all the wires around behind the switch (and also the
engine) and it doesn't seem to be any of the wires. I'm guessing it's
internal to the switch or something to do with a spike of some sort.
Any other ideas before I pull the switch out and send it back to ACS?
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Have you considered getting your money back and putting in toggle
switches? In my never humble opinion, key-switches suck.
Bob . . .
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nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Igntion Switches |
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At 07:51 AM 7/21/2008 -0400, you wrote:
| Quote: |
7/21/2008
Hello Skip, You wrote: "I saw the referenced ACS Keyed Ignition Switches
and a starter switch. What is the benefit in two switches over one?"
|
One might also properly ask, what is the benefit of one switch
over two . . . or three?
If you consider the ignition/starter controls of the entire
fleet of GA aircraft, it's only the single-engine machines
likely to be owned by John Q Public pilot with key-switches.
The earliest aircraft offered a variety of controls that
included rudimentary toggles up to and including specialized
single control On-L-R-Both switches.
The big-three gravitated to key switches back in the
late 40's . . . folks who made those decisions are long
gone but we might surmise that there was a lot thought
about making an airplane look and feel as much like an
automobile as possible.
Today, there's an oft stated desire for "security"
for having installed a key-operated ignition switch.
This is a pretty weak argument given that most airplanes
can be flown by simply breaking the wires off the backs
of the mags through the oil-filler door or back of the
key-switch by simply wiggling the terminals until they
break off.
Consider that the key-switch is not cheap. It claims
a lot of panel space considering its function.
It often becomes a pain-in-the-arse when you discover
that after being all strapped in, your keys are still
in your pocket.
Consider further that as soon as one steps up to a
twin engine aircraft, key switches for controlling
ignition are never installed on the panel. On everything
from a twin-bonanza to a King Air or Lear Jet, if you
can get into the cabin (secured by one of the easiest
locks to pick) you have the airplane!
On the other side of the coin a pair of toggle switches
and a push button integrate nicely into the panel along
with other switches. They're inexpensive, easily wired
or re-wires for mags or electronic ignition, etc. Spares
for these switches are available from a variety of sources
(some even local) while a fussy Off-L-R-Both-Start switch
is available from a relatively few numbers of sources
(all out of town!).
Bob . . .
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Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Igntion Switches |
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The reason we usually install a separate push button for starting is that is
gives the ability to turn the engine over without running the ignition. The
purpose of this is usually to clear a flooded engine.
I've found over time that seperating the start and ignition systems allows
better troubleshooting, and if you've ever tried to decipher the back of a
keyed ignition switch, upside down in the dark, you'll appreciate the
straight-forward simplicity of toggles and pushbuttons.
Plus they look cool. I usually install locking toggles for the mags.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
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Bill Schlatterer
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Igntion Switches |
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Would just also note that it is NOT a security issue as most twins and up
don't use key switches at all. The only lock on our Baron is in the door
and baggage access.
Bill S
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