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Sealing Tank Access Covers

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dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Ok guys call me ignorant but I have not yet installed my finished tanks (for

the last time) and filled them with fuel.  My access covers came from Van's

with CORK gaskets!  Someone on this list mentioned using fuel tank nutplates

with built in O-rings when building their tanks to eliminate the need for

pro-seal on the screw heads.  I can't do that because I didn't know about

them when building my tanks BUT, I can use special access cover screws with

O-rings built into the heads to achieve the same goal. 



Why not use the cork (or some synthetic rubber that's gasoline resistant)

along with some appropriate gasket sealer AND the access plate screws with

the O-rings in order to.....ELIMINATE THE HEADACHES MOST OF YOU ARE GOING

THROUGH WITH PRO-SEALED ACCESS COVERS????  



By using the pro-seal you have created an obvious DETRIMENT to easy access

and I'm sure that's part of the reason some of you are groaning so loudly.

I know, I know, it'll never leak with the pro-seal but this the SECOND

bulletin in 5 years concerning something INSIDE the tanks (the first being

the anti-rotation bracket).  Obviously one cannot count on NEVER having to

take the access cover off so let's find a less painful method than the

pro-seal!!!  There has to be a better way!!  As I said, I'm ignorant about

how good this will work because I have not experienced it. Those of you who

have used the cork (or synthetic rubber) with gasket seal know the

answer...educate me.  Thanks.



Dean Psiropoulos

RV-6A N197DM

Autocad and Tefzel

Rick Galati

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Location: Lake St. Louis MO.

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Dean,



My early 2000 vintage RV-6A slowbuild kit came equipped with cork gaskets for the fuel tanks.  I really didn't know about the O-ring deal at the time.  I just installed the access covers and cork gaskets with the kit supplied hardware per an Orndorff construction video suggesting the use of medium weight Titeseal as an alternative to proseal.  Post-construction pressure tests with a toy balloon indicated no leaks and has to date  proven to be troublefree in service.  Because of this unexpected development, I went ahead and ordered fresh gaskets to comply with the SB.  I should note I recently asked Van's what THEY use on their fleet.  I learned that they too use proseal to seal the tank covers.  Personally, I intend to go the Titeseal route again. Sold in a 1 pound can, I've got plenty left over, that's for sure.



http://tinyurl.com/nxvz8



Rick Galati  RV-6A  "Darla"  112 hours



 	  dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz wrote: 	
		  ................. My access covers came from Van's with CORK gaskets! ............. use the cork (or some synthetic rubber that's gasoline resistant) along with some appropriate gasket sealer.....................ELIMINATE THE HEADACHES MOST OF YOU ARE GOING THROUGH WITH PRO-SEALED ACCESS COVERS????  

By using the pro-seal you have created an obvious DETRIMENT to easy access and I'm sure that's part of the reason some of you are groaning so loudly. I know, I know, it'll never leak with the pro-seal but this the SECOND bulletin in 5 years concerning something INSIDE the tanks (the first being the anti-rotation bracket).  Obviously one cannot count on NEVER having to take the access cover off so let's find a less painful method than the pro-seal!!!  There has to be a better way!!  As I said, I'm ignorant about how good this will work because I have not experienced it. Those of you who have used the cork (or synthetic rubber) with gasket seal know the answer...educate me.  Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos

RV-6A N197DMAutocad and Tefzel

ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

I've been watching with interest the comments on the difficulty in removing

tank access covers that had been pro-sealed.  When I built my RV6 (completed

9/2002)I used the cork rubber gasket material from NAPA and a product called

Fuel Lube (commonly called peanut butter by A&P's)on both sides of the

gasket and have not seen any leaks in the three plus years since I've been

flying. I have also used it to seal fittings in oil and fuel lines. I have

not removed my tank access covers yet, but based my experience with other

applications I anticipate no problems or destruction of the access covers.

I'll update this E-Mail once I remove the access plates and let you all know

how it turns out.



Fran Malczynski

RV6 - N594EF

Olcott, NY

Larry Mersek

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Mountain Ranch, CA. (KCPU)

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Is fuel lube still available and if so, where can you purchase it?  Does it 

harden like pro-seal or does it remain soft as does the tight seal?



Larry Mersek

N336RV

---

_________________
Larry Mersek
Mountain Ranch, CA.
N336RV (KCPU)

Bill Schlatterer

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Aircraft Spruce and goes by Seal Lube.  Pliable so far after about 8 months.



Bill S

7a wiring 



--

rv6n6r(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Dean Psiropoulos wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Why not use the cork (or some synthetic rubber that's gasoline resistant)

 along with some appropriate gasket sealer AND the access plate screws

 with the O-rings in order to.....ELIMINATE THE HEADACHES MOST

 OF YOU ARE GOING THROUGH WITH PRO-SEALED ACCESS

 COVERS????  


	


I have the disadvantage of not having read any of the posts but perhaps my direct experience with taking the prosealed covers off will make up for that...?  



I think there's a lot bigger deal made about this by people who think it will be difficult than by people who have actually done it. I have and its no big deal. A sharp putty knife with rounded off corners will make quick work of it. Then scrape off as much as you can of the resedue and clean the last little bit with acetone, mek or naptha.



The recent post by the guy who used the "cork-and-fuel lube" method was the first one of those I've heard of that was successful. Nearly everyone I know who tried that (and there have been quite a few over the years) ended up with leaks around the gasket. In fact when I first sealed up my tanks I did it that way, but redid it with proseal before final assembly after seeing and hearing so many stories about it.



Once and for all -- it's NOT a big deal to get the prosealed plates off. Any other method is inviting leaks around the plates, which is more of a pain than what you're trying to avoid.



Randall Henderson

RV-6



Dean Psiropoulos wrote:

 Why not use the cork (or some synthetic rubber that's gasoline resistant)

 along with some appropriate gasket sealer AND the access plate screws

 with the O-rings in order to.....ELIMINATE THE HEADACHES MOST

 OF YOU ARE GOING THROUGH WITH PRO-SEALED ACCESS

 COVERS???? 



I have the disadvantage of not having read any of the posts but perhaps my direct experience with taking the prosealed covers off will make up for that...? 



I think there's a lot bigger deal made about this by people who think it will be difficult than by people who have actually done it. I have and its no big deal. A sharp putty knife with rounded off corners will make quick work of it. Then scrape off as much as you can of the resedue and clean the last little bit with acetone, mek or naptha.



The recent post by the guy who used the "cork-and-fuel lube" method was the first one of those I've heard of that was successful. Nearly everyone I know who tried that (and there have been quite a few over the years) ended up with leaks around the gasket. In fact when I first sealed up my tanks I did it that way, but redid it with proseal before final assembly after seeing and hearing so many stories about it.



Once and for all -- it's NOT a big deal to get the prosealed plates off. Any other method is inviting leaks around the plates, which is more of a pain than what you're trying to avoid.



Randall Henderson

RV-6

chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Randall,

   

  I too used Proseal because I've personally seen leaks from cork & fuel-lube.   I have had to remove my inspection/access plates from my fuel tanks.   And I KNOW it was one helluva' BIG  DEAL !        (obviously ....  YMMV).

   

  I bent the plates, and made new ones, and then Prosealed 'em back on when I was done; but only because I didn'y know a better way.   Now that I've heard of the correct type of RTV, I will try that if there's a next time.     * I sure hope when/if I open her up again I have the luck you had, 'cuz the last time was absolute sheer misery.

   

  Chuck

  



rv6n6r(at)comcast.net wrote:

  



Dean Psiropoulos wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Why not use the cork (or some synthetic rubber that's gasoline resistant)

 along with some appropriate gasket sealer AND the access plate screws

 with the O-rings in order to.....ELIMINATE THE HEADACHES MOST

 OF YOU ARE GOING THROUGH WITH PRO-SEALED ACCESS

 COVERS???? 


	


I have the disadvantage of not having read any of the posts but perhaps my direct experience with taking the prosealed covers off will make up for that...? 



I think there's a lot bigger deal made about this by people who think it will be difficult than by people who have actually done it. I have and its no big deal. A sharp putty knife with rounded off corners will make quick work of it. Then scrape off as much as you can of the resedue and clean the last little bit with acetone, mek or naptha.



The recent post by the guy who used the "cork-and-fuel lube" method was the first one of those I've heard of that was successful. Nearly everyone I know who tried that (and there have been quite a few over the years) ended up with leaks around the gasket. In fact when I first sealed up my tanks I did it that way, but redid it with proseal before final assembly after seeing and hearing so many stories about it.



Once and for all -- it's NOT a big deal to get the prosealed plates off. Any other method is inviting leaks around the plates, which is more of a pain than what you're trying to avoid.



Randall Henderson

RV-6



Dean Psiropoulos wrote:

Why not use the cork (or some synthetic rubber that's gasoline resistant)

along with some appropriate gasket sealer AND the access plate screws

with the O-rings in order to.....ELIMINATE THE HEADACHES MOST

OF YOU ARE GOING THROUGH WITH PRO-SEALED ACCESS

COVERS???? 



I have the disadvantage of not having read any of the posts but perhaps my direct experience with taking the prosealed covers off will make up for that...? 



I think there's a lot bigger deal made about this by people who think it will be difficult than by people who have actually done it. I have and its no big deal. A sharp putty knife with rounded off corners will make quick work of it. Then scrape off as much as you can of the resedue and clean the last little bit with acetone, mek or naptha.



The recent post by the guy who used the "cork-and-fuel lube" method was the first one of those I've heard of that was successful. Nearly everyone I know who tried that (and there have been quite a few over the years) ended up with leaks around the gasket. In fact when I first sealed up my tanks I did it that way, but redid it with proseal before final assembly after seeing and hearing so many stories about it.



Once and for all -- it's NOT a big deal to get the prosealed plates off. Any other method is inviting leaks around the plates, which is more of a pain than what you're trying to avoid.



Randall Henderson

RV-6



		

---------------------------------

rv6n6r(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    I too used Proseal because I've personally seen leaks from cork & fuel-lube. 

 I have had to remove my inspection/access plates from my fuel tanks.

 And I KNOW it was one helluva' BIG  DEAL !        (obviously ....  YMMV).


	


Okay I stand corrected -- I guess that goes to show you there are no "absolutes". Maybe a matter of technique? You do need to get the stuff all pretty much cut with the knife before trying to pry it off.  Helps to have a knife with a good handle so you can tap it with a hammer. Also I should qualify my earlier post to say I did it with the tanks off. I really wouldn't want to have to do this with the tanks on -- that definitely would be a PITA. Sure am glad I didn't paint over the screw heads 



Randall Henderson

RV-6



Chuck chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com wrote:

 I too used Proseal because I've personally seen leaks from cork  fuel-lube.

 I have had to remove my inspection/access plates from my fuel tanks.

 And I KNOW it was one helluva' BIG DEAL ! (obviously .... YMMV).



Okay I stand corrected -- I guess that goes to show you there are no "absolutes". Maybe a matter of technique? You do need toget the stuff all pretty much cut with the knife before trying topry it off. Helps to have a knife with a good handle so you can tap it with a hammer. Also I should qualify my earlier post to say I did it with the tanks off. I really wouldn't want to have to do this with the tanks on -- that definitely would be a PITA. Sure am glad I didn't paint over the screw heads 



Randall Henderson

RV-6

ptrotter

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Westchester County, NY

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Dean,



The problem with the cork gasket comes in a couple of places.  Many times 

leaks can occur through the threads in the screws and out under the heads. 

Also, many people over tighten the screws which deforms the panel enough to 

cause a leak between the screws.  Screws should be tightened down evenly 

with enough torque to hold the plate firmly against the cork gasket without 

deforming it.



On my tank, I used self-sealing nutplates which prevent any fuel from 

entering the screw threads.  I also went overboard and used screws with 

o-rings under the head.  I used this with the cork gasket.  I have not 

filled my tanks yet, but they hold air pressure just fine.  If I were to do 

it again, I probably would have used an access panel sealant and skipped the 

gasket.  If you go with o-ring screws, make sure they have viton o-rings as 

the normal o-ring is not resistant to fuel and will deteriorate.



The biggest complaint I have with the SB is that it will make it very 

difficult to replace the flop tube if necessary without going through the 

entire process again.



Paul



---

_________________
Paul Trotter
RV-8 82080 Fuselage Kit
N801PT (reserved)

dcw(at)mnwing.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Fellow Listers:



Seems like the access tank sealing issue is getting rather complex.  Here is

my proven solution (no leaks after 10 years in my previous RV-4).:



1.  Use the cork gasket.

2.  Apply Permatex Aviation Form A Gasket to both sides of the cork gasket.

3.  Use capscrews and washers to attach cover.

4.  Do not over tighten.

5. Apply small fillet of Pro Seal around the edges of screws.

6.  Done - no leaks



Doug Weiler

N722DW, RV-4

Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

In a message dated 3/3/2006 7:33:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  

dcw(at)mnwing.org writes:



Seems  like the access tank sealing issue is getting rather complex.  Here  is

my proven solution (no leaks after 10 years in my previous  RV-4).:



1.  Use the cork gasket.

2.  Apply Permatex  Aviation Form A Gasket to both sides of the cork gasket.

3.  Use  capscrews and washers to attach cover.

4.  Do not over tighten.

5.  Apply small fillet of Pro Seal around the edges of screws.

6.  Done -  no leaks



=====================================

 

This is essentially what I did, only I used O-ring equipped screws (from  

McMaster) for the cover fasteners (hence no need for washers and  Proseal) and 8 

yrs later have had no leaks.  



GV (RV-6A  N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 774hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)

dfischer(at)iserv.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

When installing the sender (Warner float-type), has everybody used the 

rubber gasket?  I pro-sealed mine (no leaks) but If I need to remove the 

sender to remove the access plate I am wondering if to just use the rubber 

gaskets or pro-seal 'em again.  Thanks for any feedback.



Doug Fischer

RV-9A Jenison, MI



---

chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Paul & Listers,

 I may be wrong here, but it seems to me that most folks seem to think that the problem is with the cork gaskets. It is not! The cork gaskets will seal. The PROBLEM is with Vans use of standard nutplates, in a location where NAS 1473 fuel tank nutplates are called for. The leak occurs because the fuel is able to work it's way between the threads of the nutplates and the threads of the cover screws. The fuel then leaks out from under the heads of the screws. This is not a fault with the gaskets. Personally, I've found that you can re-use the cork gaskets several times, providing they are not torn or damaged.

 Cork gaskets have been used to seal the fuel tank sending units on automobiles for decades. I've removed the fuel tanks on 20 year old cars where the original cork gasket was still doing it's job.

 As Paul & others have pointed out, an alternative (and cheaper) solution is to use #8 self sealing screws (with Viton O-rings) in lieu of the NAS 1473 nutplates (which all certified aircraft use). Make life easy on yourself. Forget the ProSeal and use the cork gaskets with the self sealing access cover screws.

Charlie Kuss



---- Paul Trotter <ptrotter(at)acm.org> wrote: 

[quote] 

 

 Dean,

 

 The problem with the cork gasket comes in a couple of places.  Many times 

 leaks can occur through the threads in the screws and out under the heads. 

 Also, many people over tighten the screws which deforms the panel enough to 

 cause a leak between the screws.  Screws should be tightened down evenly 

 with enough torque to hold the plate firmly against the cork gasket without 

 deforming it.

 

 On my tank, I used self-sealing nutplates which prevent any fuel from 

 entering the screw threads.  I also went overboard and used screws with 

 o-rings under the head.  I used this with the cork gasket.  I have not 

 filled my tanks yet, but they hold air pressure just fine.  If I were to do 

 it again, I probably would have used an access panel sealant and skipped the 

 gasket.  If you go with o-ring screws, make sure they have viton o-rings as 

 the normal o-ring is not resistant to fuel and will deteriorate.

 

 The biggest complaint I have with the SB is that it will make it very 

 difficult to replace the flop tube if necessary without going through the 

 entire process again.

 

 Paul

 

 

 

 ---

rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

 	  Quote: 	
		   ... Make life easy on yourself. Forget the ProSeal and use

 the cork gaskets with the self sealing access cover screws. 


	


Do you know if these are available in either torx or allen head?



Thanks,

Mickey



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

do not archive

_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

chaztuna(at)adelphia.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

Mickey,

 I don't know. One of my RV gurus pointed out that certified aircraft all use the NAS1473 sealed nutplates (available from Wicks) in the fuel tanks. Therefore I purchased and installed these. I realize that doesn't help those of you that have completed tanks. 

 Recently, local RV-9A builder Peter Laurence found a source for SS self sealing screws which come WITH the needed Viton O-rings (McMaster-Carr sells theirs with Silicone O-rings. You have to buy the Viton units as an additional purchase). He bailed on the RV List last year. Below is the content of a post he recently sent me. Perhaps you can contact the vendor and ask if they are available with Torx heads?

Charlie Kuss

POST RECEIVED FROM PETER L

Charlie,

Here is the info for Robin.

Part # 8-32 UNC-2A 

$.65 in SS. Minimum of 50

Peerless Electronics Inc.

9600 West Sample Road

Ste 506 

Coral Springs, Fl 33065

(800)327-4993

Ask for Mike. 

---- Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	

 > ... Make life easy on yourself. Forget the ProSeal and use

 > the cork gaskets with the self sealing access cover screws. 

 Do you know if these are available in either torx or allen head?

 Thanks,

 Mickey

 -- 

 Mickey Coggins

 http://www.rv8.ch/

 #82007 finishing

 do not archive

ptrotter

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Westchester County, NY

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: Sealing Tank Access Covers

At Charlie's suggestion, I used the NAS1473 sealed nutplates and used o-ring 

screws as well just for kicks.  I got the screws from McMaster but had a 

very hard time getting the right viton o-rings.  The o-rings on screws were 

a non-standard size and I could not match them perfectly.  I ended up using 

a metric sized o-rings as the closest fit.  When I do the SB, I will 

probably replace the o-ring screws with torx head screws since I don't 

really need the o-rings.  If I had not used the self-sealing nutplates, I 

would skip the cork gasket and use access panel sealant on the plate. 

Access panel sealant is designed for this purpose.  It seals like fuel tank 

sealant, but is not as adhesive and can be remove easier.



Paul

---

_________________
Paul Trotter
RV-8 82080 Fuselage Kit
N801PT (reserved)

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