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Superior vs. Lycoming; XP-400 vs. IO-390

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Matt Dralle
Site Admin

Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 25858
Location: Livermore CA USA

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: Superior vs. Lycoming; XP-400 vs. IO-390

Dear Listers,



What is the common opinion of Superior XP engines vs. the typical Lycoming engine?



In looking over the Superior web site, they have a new 220hp XP-400 engine designed around the basic IO-360 Angle Valve chassis that looks pretty nice.  At $30,000 new, its $3-4k cheaper than the Lycoming IO-390 solutions and, if you believe the Superior mantra, a better designed engine in general.



What is the real-world quality and reliability of Superior-built engines?



Has anyone flown behind one of these new XP-400s?



Has anyone Dyno'd the XP-400 to prove the 220hp claim?



  XP-400 Information: http://www.xp-360.com/index.asp?content=14



  Avweb Article: http://www.avweb.com/news/motorhead/189629-1.html?type=pf



Thanks for your insight!



Matt Dralle

RV-8 # 82880

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Matt Dralle
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gcomfo(at)tc3net.com
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: Superior vs. Lycoming; XP-400 vs. IO-390

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skylor4(at)yahoo.com
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: Superior vs. Lycoming; XP-400 vs. IO-390

I'm having trouble following this math: "A 2.6% increase in displacement yields a 4.8% increase in power?"



An increase in displacement from 360 to 390 is an 8.3% increase, while an increase in power from 200 to 210 is a 5% increase...reasonable in the Lycoming case if it's true that the IO-360 angle valve doesn't produce a full 200 horsepower to begin with.



An increase in displacement from 360 to 400 (Superior) is an 11.1% increase, and an increase in power from 200 to 220 is exactly a 10% increase.

 	  Quote: 	
		  SkylorRV-8 UnderconstructionIO-360, 200HP 	


--- On Thu, 7/24/08, Gordon or Marge <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Gordon or Marge <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>

Subject: RE: Superior vs. Lycoming;  XP-400 vs. IO-390

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 5:59 AM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge"<gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>Matt:  A 2.6% increase in displacement yields a 4.8% increase in power? IsLycoming stupid? Maybe.  Is Superior still in development? Probably. Willthey actually deliver 220? Who knows?  A cynic might suspect a bit ofbrochursmanship here.Gordon ComfortN363GC 	
	


         [quote][b]

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webmaster(at)flion.com
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: Superior vs. Lycoming; XP-400 vs. IO-390

Gordon's cynicism is entirely understandable, but I'd bet on Superior to

deliver at least 220.  I agree that they're probably still in development;

they don't stand still just because they've put a product on the table.  I

pondered an XP engine for a long time and watched the product evolve.  What

finally got me off the fence was my wife paying for the Build School.  I

thought I had read up a lot on the engine and various manufacturer but in

three days I learned a ton.  As it happened, the other student (they run two

at a time) had to cancel, so they used the other station to build one of the

Vantage engines.  During the build, I got to compare: flat tappet vs.

roller, carb vs. injection, and so on.  And I also got shown some of those

improvements over the stock Lycoming, like oiling the thrust bearing face or

the sump improvements (in hot rods, you'd call that porting and polishing).

I also got to see their specifications - the checklist of tolerances that

they use when building.  I'd guess that Lycoming uses similar but they are

way tighter than the acceptable tolerances in the Lycoming manuals.  And

after my build (which was inspected by their QA staff as I watched) they ran

the thing on a test stand before shipping it to me.



So that's the product; obviously I have a good opinion of it.  Now, let me

tell you about the people.  I was treated like a VIP there, which you'd

expect.  Everyone, from the CEO down knew who I was and took time to say hi

or answer questions.  Then I left and got my engine, so you might think that

I'd be forgotten.  Not at all.  They've answered every question I could ask

about my installation, quickly and helpfully.  And I recently stupidly lost

an intake manifold bolt, so I emailed them to order a replacement.  Two days

later, I had the replacement plus washer and star washer at no charge.  Sure

a minor thing, but I've known other businesses that would charge for the

part and add a handling charge.  I like this company.  In fact, I asked if

they might do an XPIO-540; I'm considering an RV-10 for a future project.

They don't have one in the works, but they wouldn't rule it out.  If I do

and they do, I'll be buying one, you betcha.



Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Cowling and final engine hookups; flying in Sept?



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