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Elevator Authority

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dwilde(at)clearwire.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

I fly from a very narrow 900 foot grass strip between rows of corn that 

are now 8 feet tall.  This morning was my first takeoff from my home 

field with my 701.  It was a non-event.  However after flying for an 

hour I came home to make my second landing at home.  I lined up the 

runway, dropped the throttle to idle and skimmed over the neighbors 

almond trees while maintaining a low angle of attack.  With the ground 

rapidly approaching I started pulling back on the stick to flair for 

landing but nothing seemed to happen.  I finally landed hard (i.e. 

bounced) with the stick all the way back and had to fight to maintain 

control and keep out of the corn at the side of the runway.  This 

landing was without flaps.  It was a hard landing but nothing was bent 

or broken.



I had previously read about this happening to others on this list but 

wondered how it could happen since I found the 701 so easy to land.  

Well lesson learned.  I  will now keep a little extra speed and higher 

throttle setting to insure flair authority.  Who sells the VG 's for the 

elevator?



Dan Wilde

N948DW

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

Dan



One source is CCI



http://www.vortexgenerator.net/



Terry



do not archive



At 10:28 AM 7/26/2008 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I fly from a very narrow 900 foot grass strip between rows of corn that 

are now 8 feet tall.  This morning was my first takeoff from my home field 

with my 701.  It was a non-event.  However after flying for an hour I came 

home to make my second landing at home.  I lined up the runway, dropped 

the throttle to idle and skimmed over the neighbors almond trees while 

maintaining a low angle of attack.  With the ground rapidly approaching I 

started pulling back on the stick to flair for landing but nothing seemed 

to happen.  I finally landed hard (i.e. bounced) with the stick all the 

way back and had to fight to maintain control and keep out of the corn at 

the side of the runway.  This landing was without flaps.  It was a hard 

landing but nothing was bent or broken.



I had previously read about this happening to others on this list but 

wondered how it could happen since I found the 701 so easy to land.

Well lesson learned.  I  will now keep a little extra speed and higher 

throttle setting to insure flair authority.  Who sells the VG 's for the 

elevator?



Dan Wilde

N948DW


	




Terry Phillips  ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons 

are done; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

I installed just VGs on the elevator.  BIG difference.  Elevator authority 

remained even at idle when landings.  I used STOLSpeed.  Cost $65 including 

shipping.

Ken

N701LK

Pikeville, NC



do not archive



---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Elevator Authority

In a message dated 7/26/2008 3:42:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  arno7452(at)bellsouth.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Ken Arnold"    <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net>



I installed just VGs on the    elevator.  BIG difference.  Elevator authority 

remained even at    idle when landings.  I used STOLSpeed.  Cost $65 including    

shipping.

Ken

N701LK

Pikeville, NC



do not    archive

Ken, 	
 Did you have to experiment with the locations or did they give instructions  for location?

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX/912S/160hrs

 [quote]

---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: Elevator Authority

Dan,

 I fly from my own strip also If you are going to come  in flat you need to carry some extra power as the speed bleeds off very fast as  you now know. This plane does not float unless you are carrying too much extra  power. I do not have VG's and don't have a problem as long as I carry the RPM's  which give you air across your elevator. I suggest that you get used to flying  at different angles of attack. It took me a while to get used to the angle of  the 701 in landing configuration compared to the Pipers that I used to fly.  This plane is great at all different landings from full flap short field to no  flap 90 MPH landings at busy airports. For short fields I usually carry 3400-  3600 RPM with full flaps. I would caution you that you maintain safe width of  your field so that you don't catch a wingtip on the corn.

  

 I think we have all bounce it in a time or  two.

  

 Safe flying

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX/912S/160hrs

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 7/26/2008 1:30:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  dwilde(at)clearwire.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith701801-List message posted by: Dan <dwilde(at)clearwire.net>



I    fly from a very narrow 900 foot grass strip between rows of corn that 

are    now 8 feet tall.  This morning was my first takeoff from my home    

field with my 701.  It was a non-event.  However after flying    for an 

hour I came home to make my second landing at home.  I lined    up the 

runway, dropped the throttle to idle and skimmed over the neighbors    

almond trees while maintaining a low angle of attack.  With the    ground 

rapidly approaching I started pulling back on the stick to flair    for 

landing but nothing seemed to happen.  I finally landed hard    (i.e. 

bounced) with the stick all the way back and had to fight to    maintain 

control and keep out of the corn at the side of the runway.     This 

landing was without flaps.  It was a hard landing but nothing    was bent 

or broken.



I had previously read about this happening to    others on this list but 

wondered how it could happen since I found the 701    so easy to land.  

Well lesson learned.  I  will now keep a    little extra speed and higher 

throttle setting to insure flair    authority.  Who sells the VG 's for the 

elevator?



Dan  ===================== 	


 

  



Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

  [quote][b]

arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

Bob,

 Very clear instructions were included.  Took about an hour with my CFI  and I working together.  2 people make job easier.

  

 I can probably dig up the instructions if you want.

 Ken

 N701LK/912ULS

  

  

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

graeme(at)coletoolcentre.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

I always wonder why people fly th 701 like a cessna.

 I fly from a short strip i am usually at  500ft when on down wind I do  a banking decending turn at 100 meters past strip.

 set upglide approach no flaps engine idle keep air speed 55-60  knots (over trees) until just about on strip pull back gently airspeed  bleds off quickly land 40-35 knots.

 If you are doing a glide approach a 35-40 knots are on the stall slightly  too much back stick  the aircraft decends rapidly and decent will  not be arrested with elevator  alone you will need some  power. 

  

 VG are an addon to try and increase the speed at which the stall  occures.

 The cure indicates the problem the aircraft is stalling (flying to slow for  the conditions0

  

 If you inted operating from a short strip have plenty of practice at your  nearest airport and get you short landings right.

  don't persist on your short strip  and bend your aircraft or  worse you wouldn't be the first.

  

  

  

 GraemeCNS

 [quote]   ---

georgerace

Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 788
Location: Albion, MI

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

Hi Bob:

 You say you carry  3400-3600 RPM with full flaps. 

  

 Am I correct in assuming  that you are using a Rotax with a PSRU?

  

 If so would that make the  prop RPM about 1700-1800?  And the airspeed across the threshold  is?

  

 Thanks,

 George

 N73EX



   From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  NYTerminat(at)aol.com

Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:09  PM

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:  Elevator Authority

 

  Dan,

 I fly from my own strip also If you are going to come  in flat you need to carry some extra power as the speed bleeds off very fast as  you now know. This plane does not float unless you are carrying too much extra  power. I do not have VG's and don't have a problem as long as I carry the RPM's  which give you air across your elevator. I suggest that you get used to flying  at different angles of attack. It took me a while to get used to the angle of  the 701 in landing configuration compared to the Pipers that I used to fly.  This plane is great at all different landings from full flap short field to no  flap 90 MPH landings at busy airports. For short fields I usually carry 3400-  3600 RPM with full flaps. I would caution you that you maintain safe width of  your field so that you don't catch a wingtip on the corn.

  

 I think we have all bounce it in a time or  two.

  

 Safe flying

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX/912S/160hrs

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 7/26/2008 1:30:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  dwilde(at)clearwire.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith701801-List message posted by: Dan <dwilde(at)clearwire.net>



I    fly from a very narrow 900 foot grass strip between rows of corn that 

are    now 8 feet tall.  This morning was my first takeoff from my home    

field with my 701.  It was a non-event.  However after flying    for an 

hour I came home to make my second landing at home.  I lined    up the 

runway, dropped the throttle to idle and skimmed over the neighbors    

almond trees while maintaining a low angle of attack.  With the    ground 

rapidly approaching I started pulling back on the stick to flair    for 

landing but nothing seemed to happen.  I finally landed hard    (i.e. 

bounced) with the stick all the way back and had to fight to    maintain 

control and keep out of the corn at the side of the runway.     This 

landing was without flaps.  It was a hard landing but nothing    was bent 

or broken.



I had previously read about this happening to    others on this list but 

wondered how it could happen since I found the 701    so easy to land.  

Well lesson learned.  I  will now keep a    little extra speed and higher 

throttle setting to insure flair    authority.  Who sells the VG 's for the 

elevator?



Dan    ===================== 	


 

  



   Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

_________________
Check out my CH-701 project at:
http://www.mykitairplane.com

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

Ken,

  

 If you wouldn't mind, when you get a chance I would like to see it.

  

 Thanks

 Bob

  

  

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 7/27/2008 5:16:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  arno7452(at)bellsouth.net writes:

 [quote]   Bob,

   Very clear instructions were included.  Took about an hour with my    CFI and I working together.  2 people make job easier.

    

   I can probably dig up the instructions if you want.

   Ken

   N701LK/912ULS

    

    

    

    

    

   [quote]     ---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

George,

 Yes Rotax 912S, Prop RPM would be about 1400 - 1500.  Airspeed is about 40mph.

  

 Bob

  

  

 In a message dated 7/27/2008 12:31:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  mykitairplane(at)mrrace.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Hi Bob:

   You say you carry    3400-3600 RPM with full flaps. 

    

   Am I correct in    assuming that you are using a Rotax with a PSRU?

    

   If so would that make    the prop RPM about 1700-1800?  And the airspeed across the threshold    is?

    

   Thanks,

   George

   N73EX



         From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    NYTerminat(at)aol.com

Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:09    PM

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:    Elevator Authority

   

      Dan,

   I fly from my own strip also If you are going to come    in flat you need to carry some extra power as the speed bleeds off very fast    as you now know. This plane does not float unless you are carrying too much    extra power. I do not have VG's and don't have a problem as long as I carry    the RPM's which give you air across your elevator. I suggest that you get used    to flying at different angles of attack. It took me a while to get used to the    angle of the 701 in landing configuration compared to the Pipers that I    used to fly. This plane is great at all different landings from full flap    short field to no flap 90 MPH landings at busy airports. For short fields I    usually carry 3400- 3600 RPM with full flaps. I would caution you that you    maintain safe width of your field so that you don't catch a wingtip on the    corn.

    

   I think we have all bounce it in a time or    two.

    

   Safe flying

   Bob Spudis

   N701ZX/912S/160hrs



	


 

  



Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

  [quote][b]

dwilde(at)clearwire.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: Elevator Authority

NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Dan,

 I fly from my own strip also If you are going to come in flat you need 

 to carry some extra power as the speed bleeds off very fast as you now 

 know. This plane does not float unless you are carrying too much extra 

 power. I do not have VG's and don't have a problem as long as I carry 

 the RPM's which give you air across your elevator. I suggest that you 

 get used to flying at different angles of attack. It took me a while 

 to get used to the angle of the 701 in landing configuration compared 

 to the Pipers that I used to fly. This plane is great at all different 

 landings from full flap short field to no flap 90 MPH landings at busy 

 airports. For short fields I usually carry 3400- 3600 RPM with full 

 flaps. I would caution you that you maintain safe width of your field 

 so that you don't catch a wingtip on the corn.

  

 I think we have all bounce it in a time or two.

  

 Safe flying

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX/912S/160hrs

  

  

  

  

Bob and others:  I had no problem today on landing.  I just carried a 
	


few extra rpms. 



I initially was  worried about landing too long on my runway because the 

50' trees at the far end kind of limit the go around possibilities.  Now 

that I have a few landings I see this is not likely to be an issue.  I 

could easily be stopped by 300 feet from the end of the runway over 20' 

almond trees and I am not using flaps.  I still have 600' to use.



Dan Wilde

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: Elevator Authority

Dan,

 Sounds great, practice will get you on spot every time. Have lots of fun  flying.

  

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

  

 In a message dated 7/27/2008 3:12:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  dwilde(at)clearwire.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob and    others:  I had no problem today on landing.  I just carried a    

few extra rpms. 



I initially was  worried about landing too    long on my runway because the 

50' trees at the far end kind of limit the    go around possibilities.  Now 

that I have a few landings I see this    is not likely to be an issue.  I 

could easily be stopped by 300 feet    from the end of the runway over 20' 

almond trees and I am not using    flaps.  I still have 600' to use.



Dan  Wilde

	


 

  



Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

  [quote][b]

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: Elevator Authority

Greetings Ken,



    I would like to see those instructions, too.



Thanks,

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive



---

arno7452(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: Elevator Authority

OK, will send them out.

May take a little to find them.

Ken



---

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