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Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

Hi all - it's the guy with the grounded UK Model II again:



I met with my local DAR and handed over my box of documentation, and asked

for an Airworthiness Certificate. The airplane was built in 1991 and flown

in the UK as a "microlight".



He said I could not get Light Sport because it specifically excludes foreign

aircraft with previous Airworthiness Certification although he stated he

could not find the Certificate in my documentation. Further research on my

part shows it was flown with a Permit To Fly, which according to the CAA is

only issued to aircraft that are ineligible for an ICAO C of A. I have yet

to present this info to the DAR.



He also said I cannot apply for Experimental-Amateur Homebuilt because I do

not have build logs from the original builder, who I believe is deceased.

Specifically he says I need to prove the 51% rule even though at the time

Denney did not offer a fast-build option or completed aircraft, only kits.



He suggested I apply as Exhibition but I would have to re-apply each year

and supply a list of events I intend to fly to "exhibit" the airplane and

would be restricted to only those flights and "preparation" flying within 1

tank of my home airport. My feeling about this suggestion is that it *sucks*

and even though it would get me in the air this season it would limit if not

eliminate the chance of going Light Sport or Experimental in the future,

even though he says I can.



He also stated at the end of the last meeting that he "gets $600" for the AC

and that he has already accrued 2 hours of chargeable time so far.



So my question to listers is - what do you think of the suggestion to apply

for an Exhibition AC and the possibilities and expense of getting a proper

AC after? And are the suggested fees standard and/or reasonable? I plan to

argue the rejections but am hesitant if I am going to be charged by the hour

to educate a DAR in issuing a CA to an imported aircraft.



Thanks in advance for opinions/advice/similar experiences,



Bob Brennan

1991 UK Model 2 Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa

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dcsfoto

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 120

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

You need to talk to the FSDO manager,if that does not work get your congressman involved.



David

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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

The FSDO manager is the one that gave me his name in the first place. I

think I'll take the direct approach, he (the DAR) seems like a nice enough

guy. I'll ask "why so MUCH???" and see what he says... Now that all the

people on the list have given me an idea of what a reasonable charge is,

thanks.



bob 



--

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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

My DAR seems willing now to submit an application for my UK-built Model II

as Experimental Light Sport. However there are 2 sections in the FAA

document 21-193 subpart H

(http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=b35f758348b623a85e

3e0c3285bf545c&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:1.0.1.3.9.8.11.15&idno=14) which

call for the following:



(1) Evidence that an aircraft of the same make and model was manufactured

and assembled by the aircraft kit manufacturer and issued a special

airworthiness certificate in the light-sport category.



(4) The manufacturer's statement of compliance for the aircraft kit used in

the aircraft assembly that meets §21.190(c), except that instead of meeting

§21.190(c)(7), the statement must identify assembly instructions for the

aircraft that meet an applicable consensus standard.

On the Kitfox website General FAQ page is:



"Does the Kitfox qualify for Light Sport Aircraft (LSA)?

Absolutely !  The current Kitfox can be operated at the 1320 lb gross weight

when on gear and the 1430 lb gross when on floats. It can also be converted

from floats, to skis, to tail wheel or to Tricycle gear.. Your choice."



but I don't think the FAA will accept just "Absolutely!" as the answer to

the above requirements. Does anyone know where I can get "Evidence that an

aircraft of the same make and model was manufactured and assembled by the

aircraft kit manufacturer and issued a special airworthiness certificate in

the light-sport category." and "The manufacturer's statement of

compliance..."?



Has anyone converted their Model II to Light Sport?



Thanks in advance, again,



Bob Brennan

1991 UK Model 2 Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

Bob, here's my understanding of the LSA rules.



A kitfox can be operated under "Sport Pilot rules" if it meets the "Definition" of a Light Sport Aircraft.



With the establishing of LSA rules, existing fat ultralights were given an amnesty period to register as "Experimental Light Sport Aircraft".  That period ended January 31, 2008.  An application to register a fat ultralight must have been filed with the FAA by that date for it to qualify for an experimental light sport aircraft certificate.



A few Light Sport aircraft manufactures also sell Kits which they certify to essentially meet all the standards equal to their "Ready to fly" Light Sport Aircraft.  These kits can be registered as experimental light sport aircraft.



As far as I Know, Kitfox Aircraft LLC does not build a ready to fly aircraft that can be registered as a light sport aircraft.



If you have been operating a kitfox as an unregistered ultralight prior to January 31, 2008 and applied to registered it as an Experimental Light sport aircraft before that date you might get approval from the FAA.



Again, this is just my understanding of the rules.

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

Thanks Tom,



I registered the plane in October 2006 and have an exemption letter from the

EAA which has already been accepted by the FAA representative as exempting

me from the Jan 2008 deadline. The question remains as to whether I can

fulfil the 2 manufacturer's statement requirements as stated in my original

post. 



Also there is the possibility that if there is another Model 2 already

certificated as Light Sport that it could be used as an example of the "type

and model", which is why I am asking if anyone on the list has a Model 2

Light Sport. My guess is that all Model 2's will have already been

registered as Experimental-Amateur Built and not(?) be eligible to switch.



Bob Brennan

1991 UK Model 2 Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



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dcsfoto

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 120

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

you need a light sport DAR that knows what he is doing.

you only need the manufactures compliance statement for LSA certification.



to go experimental  light sport you only need to show registration prior to jan 31 08 and have the exemption letter.

contact Jay Kitchens Manager of FAA AFS 640   jay.kitchens(at)faa.gov



ask him for the contact info for Van Stumpner he is in AFS 640 and teaches

the light sport DAR class.



see if that helps



David

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

Mine cost me $350....he drove from about 85 miles away. He said  

initially that having the paperwork in order was the most crucial  

part to get in order even before he would begin to think about coming  

over. A friend used free FAA inspectors, but had to wait a week or so.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/557+ hrs

On Jul 26, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Tom Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

> Does anyone else have invoices/memories of the cost of getting  

> their Airworthiness Certificate?

 May 5, 2000, $332.50.  This included 300 miles round trip travel  

 and motel costs split with another plane he inspected the same  

 day.  He spent about an hour going through my builders log and  

 paper work and about two hours inspecting the kitfox.

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

dcsfoto

Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 120

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Imported UK Kitfox, Airworthiness Certificate, and DARs

in my FAA office it could be 12 weeks or more.

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