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ding(at)tbscc.com
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 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Rubber wing root moulding |
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You guys and gals who have completed your wing installation -- Have you glued the rubber root moulding to the wing or just slipped it in place and installed the wing?
Lynn
Corry, PA 601XL / Corvair
[quote][b]
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ashleyw(at)gvtc.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: Rubber wing root moulding |
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Glued mine.
Floyd Wilkes
601XL O-200
[quote] ---
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LHusky
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Madras, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: Rubber wing root moulding |
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I came from New Mexico, where a guy was parting out his XL and then destroying the airframe. This was a factory plane and the molding was glued on. I plan on doing mine the same way.
Larry Husky
Madras, Oregon
In a message dated 7/29/2008 6:51:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ding(at)tbscc.com writes:
| Quote: | You guys and gals who have completed your wing installation -- Have you glued the rubber root moulding to the wing or just slipped it in place and installed the wing?
Lynn
Corry, PA 601XL / Corvair
| Quote: |
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
[quote][b]
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: Rubber wing root moulding |
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Do WHAT? Destroy your airframe? 
(just a Joke)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- On Tue, 7/29/08, LHusky(at)aol.com <LHusky(at)aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: LHusky(at)aol.com <LHusky(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Rubber wing root moulding
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 10:34 PM
I came from New Mexico, where a guy was parting out his XL and then destroying the airframe. This was a factory plane and the molding was glued on. I plan on doing mine the same way.
Larry Husky
Madras, Oregon
In a message dated 7/29/2008 6:51:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ding(at)tbscc.com writes:
| Quote: | You guys and gals who have completed your wing installation -- Have you glued the rubber root moulding to the wing or just slipped it in place and installed the wing?
Lynn
Corry, PA 601XL / Corvair
| Quote: |
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
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[quote][b]
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jaybannist(at)cs.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: Rubber wing root moulding |
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The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that the XL is too dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts.
My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
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LHusky
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Madras, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Rubber wing root moulding |
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I have to agree. I bought a lot of parts off of that BEAUTIFUL plane. I was very impressed with the quality of the plane and would have flown it anywhere. I still have not found any quality as good, including the new AMD plane I looked at when I was at Arlington. CWAZ did some might fine work and took pride in the little details. I am very happy to have the parts, but it hurt to cut up the airframe.
Larry Husky
Madras, Oregon
In a message dated 7/30/2008 1:06:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jaybannist(at)cs.com writes:
[quote] The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that the XL is too dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts.
My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
--
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Terry Phillips
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Rubber wing root moulding |
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Jay
Actually, I think the whole story is a bit more complex than you suggest. I
have been collecting data on flutter experiences as input for the engineer
doing the independent engineering analysis for ZBAG. When I read of his
experience, I asked Philip for whatever information he could give me. He
responded with a very complete write up, which I am appending to this note.
I will let the readers decide whether Philip was 'spooked by the reports of
XL "folding wings."' I have not met Philip, but he seems like a pretty
levelheaded pilot to me, and he has way more pilot experience than I do. I
believe that Philip had serious concerns about the safety of his airplane
and rather than sell an aircraft that he did not consider safe, he parted
it out (which I'd bet lost him a bundle of money). If you're interested,
you might search the archives for Klaus Truemper's post which speaks to the
quality of CZAW's construction in Philips A/C. I'm attaching a sectional
image showing Cooke Peak.
Terry
At 04:01 PM 7/30/2008 -0400, Jay in Dallas wrote:
| Quote: | The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA
Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the
reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that the XL is too
dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts.
My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
|
At 07:54 PM 7/8/2008 +0000, Philip Welsch wrote:
| Quote: | Terry:
My experience with the XL involved what I would describe as a span-wise
shudder. It was like sitting on a diving board that someone else was
jumping on. I saw no control surface or wing vibration other than the
normal oil canning (I did not, however observe the flaps during the event).
I was flying at 7,800' msl (aprox. 2,000' agl) at 105 mph ias. I was
upwind of and about one half mile from the west flank of Cookes Peak
(8,408' msl). It was about 0830 local, 40 degrees F, clear sky and there
was very little wind and absolutely no turbulence. I was alone in the
aircraft and light at about 1,000 lbs total weight (601 VV weighed 677 lbs
empty).
Upon feeling the shudder I reduced throttle and initiated a climb (aboutÂ
10 degrees). Airspeed bled off to about 80 mph quickly and just as quickly
the shudder was gone. 80 mph is probably about Va for a 601 XL at 1,000
lbs total weight.
The landing 15 minutes later was uneventful and there was no noticable
damage to control surfaces, flaps or rear attach bolts. The wings
displayed no vertical or fore and aft movement suggesting attachment
issues. No rivets appeared loose.
601VV had wing lockers and some inboard skin to spar A5's had been
replaced due to suspected "smoking". The aircraft had about 370 hours
total time when the event occurred. I bought the aircraft with 47 hours
on the Hobbs. The builder was the owner of "Skyshops" and the airplane was
constructed as a "Light Sport" demonstrator at CZAWÂ with a gross weight
of 1232 lbs. Contrary to what Heintz has suggested concerning lighter
weight European constructed 601 XL's this aircraft appeared to conform to
Heintz plans except for the composite landing gear. I received the plans
with the aircraft and the changes CZAW made were attached to the
appropriate Heintz drawing. This aircraft was licensed built by CZAW and I
have the invoice documenting the purchase by CZAW of  the serial number
from Zenith Aircraft in Mexico Mo.
I've flown about 2,100 hours during the last 20 years in eight models ofÂ
light certificated aircraft and gliders. Much of that time has been during
cross country flight in all kinds of VFR and MVFR weather -Â including
substantial turbulence. I've always considered that I might be killed in a
light aircraft but I figured that it would be due to some stupid pilot
trick. Prior to the XL I had never been concerned about the possibility of
structural failure killing me.Â
I'm sure this is more that you bargained for, but you asked and I needed
to vent.
I don't care what you do with the information.
Best regards,
Philip Welsch Â
|
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings. |
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Gig Giacona
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber wing root moulding |
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|
That ain't flutter. We have a name for it in aviation. It's called turbulence. Sounds like he hit some funky airmass off the mountain. Hardly a reason to tear apart an airplane.
I'm with Jay, rumor-driven disaster
| Terry Phillips wrote: | Jay
Actually, I think the whole story is a bit more complex than you suggest. I
have been collecting data on flutter experiences as input for the engineer
doing the independent engineering analysis for ZBAG. When I read of his
experience, I asked Philip for whatever information he could give me. He
responded with a very complete write up, which I am appending to this note.
I will let the readers decide whether Philip was 'spooked by the reports of
XL "folding wings."' I have not met Philip, but he seems like a pretty
levelheaded pilot to me, and he has way more pilot experience than I do. I
believe that Philip had serious concerns about the safety of his airplane
and rather than sell an aircraft that he did not consider safe, he parted
it out (which I'd bet lost him a bundle of money). If you're interested,
you might search the archives for Klaus Truemper's post which speaks to the
quality of CZAW's construction in Philips A/C. I'm attaching a sectional
image showing Cooke Peak.
Terry
At 04:01 PM 7/30/2008 -0400, Jay in Dallas wrote:
| Quote: | The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA
Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the
reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that the XL is too
dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts.
My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
|
At 07:54 PM 7/8/2008 +0000, Philip Welsch wrote:
| Quote: | Terry:
My experience with the XL involved what I would describe as a span-wise
shudder. It was like sitting on a diving board that someone else was
jumping on. I saw no control surface or wing vibration other than the
normal oil canning (I did not, however observe the flaps during the event).
I was flying at 7,800' msl (aprox. 2,000' agl) at 105 mph ias. I was
upwind of and about one half� mile from the west flank of Cookes Peak
(8,408' msl). It was about 0830 local, 40 degrees F, clear sky� and there
was very little wind and absolutely no turbulence. I was alone in the
aircraft and light at about 1,000 lbs total weight (601 VV weighed 677 lbs
empty).
Upon feeling the shudder I reduced throttle and initiated a climb (about�
10 degrees). Airspeed bled off to about 80 mph quickly and just as quickly
the shudder was gone. 80 mph is probably about Va for a 601 XL at 1,000
lbs total weight.
The landing 15 minutes later was uneventful and there was no noticable
damage to control surfaces, flaps or rear attach bolts. The wings
displayed no vertical or fore and aft movement suggesting attachment
issues. No rivets appeared loose.
601VV had wing lockers and some inboard� skin to spar A5's had been
replaced due to suspected "smoking". The aircraft had about 370 hours
total time� when the event occurred. I bought the aircraft with 47 hours
on the Hobbs. The builder was the owner of "Skyshops" and the airplane was
constructed as a "Light Sport" demonstrator at CZAW� with a gross weight
of 1232 lbs. Contrary to what Heintz has suggested concerning lighter
weight� European constructed 601 XL's this aircraft appeared to conform to
Heintz plans except for the composite landing gear. I received the plans
with the aircraft and the changes CZAW made were attached to the
appropriate Heintz drawing. This aircraft was licensed built by CZAW and I
have the invoice documenting the purchase by CZAW� of � the serial number
from Zenith Aircraft in Mexico Mo.
I've flown about 2,100 hours during the last 20 years in� eight models of�
light certificated aircraft and gliders. Much of that time has been during
cross country flight in all kinds of VFR and MVFR weather -� including
substantial turbulence. I've always considered that I might be killed in a
light aircraft but I figured that it would be due to some stupid pilot
trick. Prior to the XL I had never been concerned about the possibility of
structural failure killing me.�
I'm sure this is more that you bargained for, but you asked and I needed
to vent.
I don't care what you do with the information.
Best regards,
Philip Welsch� �
|
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ |
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR |
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: Rubber wing root moulding |
|
|
Gig,
Your comment made me remember: Since several years ago, every time my wife and myself fly commercial (airlines) she ask for a middle seat, because she does not like to see the wings move as diving boards when in turbulence...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
--- On Wed, 7/30/08, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rubber wing root moulding
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 5:52 PM
| Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"
<wrgiacona(at)gmail.com>
That ain't flutter. We have a name for it in aviation. It's called
turbulence. Sounds like he hit some funky airmass off the mountain. Hardly a
reason to tear apart an airplane.
I'm with Jay, rumor-driven disaster
Terry Phillips wrote:
| Quote: | Jay
Actually, I think the whole story is a bit more complex than you suggest.
I
|
| Quote: | have been collecting data on flutter experiences as input for the engineer
|
| Quote: | doing the independent engineering analysis for ZBAG. When I read of his
experience, I asked Philip for whatever information he could give me. He
responded with a very complete write up, which I am appending to this
note.
|
| Quote: | I will let the readers decide whether Philip was 'spooked by the
reports of
|
| Quote: | XL "folding wings."' I have not met Philip, but he seems
like a pretty
|
| Quote: | levelheaded pilot to me, and he has way more pilot experience than I do. I
|
| Quote: | believe that Philip had serious concerns about the safety of his airplane
and rather than sell an aircraft that he did not consider safe, he parted
it out (which I'd bet lost him a bundle of money). If you're
interested,
|
| Quote: | you might search the archives for Klaus Truemper's post which speaks
to the
|
| Quote: | quality of CZAW's construction in Philips A/C. I'm attaching a
sectional
|
| Quote: | image showing Cooke Peak.
Terry
At 04:01 PM 7/30/2008 -0400, Jay in Dallas wrote:
> The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA
> Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the
> reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that
the XL is too
|
| Quote: | > dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as
parts.
|
| Quote: | >
> My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster.
>
> Jay in Dallas
> Do not archive
>
>
At 07:54 PM 7/8/2008 +0000, Philip Welsch wrote:
> Terry:
>
> My experience with the XL involved what I would describe as a
span-wise
|
| Quote: | > shudder. It was like sitting on a diving board that someone else was
> jumping on. I saw no control surface or wing vibration other than the
|
| Quote: | > normal oil canning (I did not, however observe the flaps during the
event).
|
| Quote: | >
> I was flying at 7,800' msl (aprox. 2,000' agl) at 105 mph
ias. I was
|
| Quote: | > upwind of and about one half� mile from the west flank of Cookes
Peak
|
| Quote: | > (8,408' msl). It was about 0830 local, 40 degrees F, clear
sky� and there
|
| Quote: | > was very little wind and absolutely no turbulence. I was alone in the
|
| Quote: | > aircraft and light at about 1,000 lbs total weight (601 VV weighed
677 lbs
|
| Quote: | > empty).
>
> Upon feeling the shudder I reduced throttle and initiated a climb
(about�
|
| Quote: | > 10 degrees). Airspeed bled off to about 80 mph quickly and just as
quickly
|
| Quote: | > the shudder was gone. 80 mph is probably about Va for a 601 XL at
1,000
|
| Quote: | > lbs total weight.
>
> The landing 15 minutes later was uneventful and there was no
noticable
|
| Quote: | > damage to control surfaces, flaps or rear attach bolts. The wings
> displayed no vertical or fore and aft movement suggesting attachment
> issues. No rivets appeared loose.
>
> 601VV had wing lockers and some inboard� skin to spar A5's
had been
|
| Quote: | > replaced due to suspected "smoking". The aircraft had about
370 hours
|
| Quote: | > total time� when the event occurred. I bought the aircraft with
47 hours
|
| Quote: | > on the Hobbs. The builder was the owner of "Skyshops" and
the airplane was
|
| Quote: | > constructed as a "Light Sport" demonstrator at CZAW�
with a gross weight
|
| Quote: | > of 1232 lbs. Contrary to what Heintz has suggested concerning lighter
|
| Quote: | > weight� European constructed 601 XL's this aircraft appeared
to conform to
|
| Quote: | > Heintz plans except for the composite landing gear. I received the
plans
|
| Quote: | > with the aircraft and the changes CZAW made were attached to the
> appropriate Heintz drawing. This aircraft was licensed built by CZAW
and I
|
| Quote: | > have the invoice documenting the purchase by CZAW� of � the
serial number
|
| Quote: | > from Zenith Aircraft in Mexico Mo.
>
> I've flown about 2,100 hours during the last 20 years in�
eight models of�
|
| Quote: | > light certificated aircraft and gliders. Much of that time has been
during
|
| Quote: | > cross country flight in all kinds of VFR and MVFR weather -�
including
|
| Quote: | > substantial turbulence. I've always considered that I might be
killed in a
|
| Quote: | > light aircraft but I figured that it would be due to some stupid
pilot
|
| Quote: | > trick. Prior to the XL I had never been concerned about the
possibility of
|
| Quote: | > structural failure killing me.�
>
> I'm sure this is more that you bargained for, but you asked and I
needed
|
| Quote: | > to vent.
>
> I don't care what you do with the information.
>
> Best regards,
> Philip Welsch� �
>
>
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, &
ailerons
|
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195792#195792
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[quote][b]
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