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The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SAME!

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flicka401(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SAME!

" I wonder if the tail section from a 701 would fit a 750, or if I could get any

      trade in value from my 701 plans  [Laughing] "

      

The  CH-750 is 0.020", and the CH-701 0.016", I'm assuming that is for all sheet-metal on the air-frame.

 I'm glad they beefed it up, I always thought 16-thou was like tin-foil.

My guess is not much will map back & forth ( 701<!=>750).

 Note also the width of the mains on the CH-750 is narrower, I wonder if they beefed the springs? Or just  reduced the fulcrum? They say they improved the landing gear for the additional weight. BUT WHAT DID THEY DO? It's really not fun guessing, and reverse engineering. Is this obfuscation just to slow down the competition? Or confuse the FAA?

All marketing glad to see a CH-701 class airplane finally able to carry a USA aircraft engine, that you don't have to hand-prop.

This will open up a whole new market for zenith. With the dollar going down, the rotax will just keep going up.

I really wish we didn't have to 'guess' these things, that zenith would just answer questions, and publish engineering data to customers.

I would like to see the glide speed with no-engine on the CH-750, with the wider wing's it should be interesting to note the difference in glide-speed and glide-ratio, compared to the ch-701.

 I see a lot of 'frankenstein' 701's around, I think the 750 will be targeted towards the money as no-object market, where a guy wants a real airplane. It's clear the 750 will be 50% premium for the addition +4-thou sheet-metal, and standard bubble doors. I think the 701 market will go the younger hobby poor crowd, and the 750 will go to the builder-assist retirement crowd. Makes perfect sense, one group wants rock solid reliability, and the other just wants to fly and have fun.

Vans 'builder-assist' folks are charging up to $1200/day to assist, I think that the ch-750 is a door into to that world like the RV-12.

It's good to see so many scratch builders in this forum, the growth market in this business is 60+ retirement crowd that is more than willing to spend $60k or more. The RV-12 will cost more than the RV-9, so these LSA's may be light, but they're not cheaper.

One reason I like the zenith crowd is they're regular people, I hope the intro into this market doesn't start making snob's out of CH owners.





I JUST GOT A CONFIRM FROM ZENITH, THE RUDDER FOR THE 750&701 is the same.



 Paddy O'Malley

flicka401(at)gmail.com (flicka401(at)gmail.com)



 



 [quote][b]

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SA

Wow talk about cut and paste!  

Like I said in the rest of my post, maybe its just marketing. I'll ask about the tail section though. And don't forget, the really penny pinching of us.... me, will still opt for the 701 with the SVS1300 for GPH alone. I do really like the cabin, but I'd rather have have a 701HD.



Kevin

_________________
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Dorothy McCune

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SA

The tires are the same too, but I don't have those yet... so I guess I'll keep building my 701.. I do like the cabin better but you can put some windows in the 701 baggage bay. I like the windscreen wrapped around the side, but I do not like the smaller instrument panel it requires. Hands down the seats are better. If I were going to buy a 701 or a 750 kit,  the new mfg process alone would make it a hands down 75o choice! I guess I'd have to put the turbo on the SVS1300 then!



Kevin

additional:

The baggage area is not even, as there are two recesses, due to controls. But I can envision some doors to restrain the baggage as well as a hinged window to access it from out side.

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rbjjr

Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 36

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SA

Sorry, but who is saying the rudder is the same?  And is it, actually?  Same .016 skin too?



Thanks



Burke Johnson CH701

ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SAME!

Burke,

I heard it from Roger at Oshkosh.  Don't know if the skin thicknesses are the same or not but it would be nice if someone can confirm.



do not archive

Art

--- On Fri, 8/1/08, rbjjr <burkeandsusan(at)verizon.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: rbjjr <burkeandsusan(at)verizon.net>

 Subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SAME!

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 5:27 PM

 

 "rbjjr" <burkeandsusan(at)verizon.net>

 

 Sorry, but who is saying the rudder is the same?  And is

 it, actually?  Same .016 skin too?

 

 Thanks

 

 Burke Johnson CH701

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196083#196083

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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flicka750

Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 31

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SA

 	  rbjjr wrote: 	
		  Sorry, but who is saying the rudder is the same?  And is it, actually?  Same .016 skin too?



Thanks



Burke Johnson CH701 	




I talked to zenith last week, and they explicitly told me, that the rudder for the ch-701 & ch-750 is the same.



Note the 750 is said to be 0.020" on the wing/fuselage skin, personally I think this is the most major difference, I simply cannot find that much difference between these two planes.



It seems the heavier skin is the biggest, and the ch-601 nose ( firewall forward power plant 601/750 will be same ). Kit build appears to be exactly the same, as they have already made the 701 as easy as possible to build as possible. I can't find a single 'build advantage' between the two, they both have pre-drilling, and spar's pre-assembled.



I'm already working on the rudder, and have had been working on an RV-9 ( 5+ yr project ), but really want a STOL airplane first to take off & land at home. I like the ch-750 because of the 'real airplane engine' issue, I really like the TMX-0-200. Thus the 750 will probably be the way, that said, I really don't see why ZENITH is charging almost a 50% premium for this design ( $21k-750/$13k-701 airframe), if the only difference is a 601 nose, and 0.004" thicker skin. Note the 601 is $16k. The CH-750 is almost as much as the CH-801($24k).



The only 701's I have seen with an O-200 were hand-start to keep the weight down. It seems like  if you want a USA air-craft engine your forced into the ch-750. I really don't like the ROTAX it reminds me of the high-maintenance exotic engine on my HONDA CRF-450 dirt-bike, yes it red-lines at 14k RPM, but the complexity and maintenance is tiresome. Reading the ROTAX logs its clear that the people are perpetually fussing with dozens of variables and test jigs to keep their engine tuned to optimum performance.



I think the debate here should be how important is that extra 0.004" of skin, and can a O-200 class engine be found within the weight class of the 701. If the stated goal is to build a 'semi-disposable' plane as cheap as possible, I don't see it. 



I really see the CH-750 competing in the Van's RV world of high prices, and high margin, and maximum profit. We the builder's typically aren't rich, and price does matter.



I would really prefer to figure out a way to have a O-200 ( type engine ) with a light starter/battery in a CH-701, and just go fly, and not spend all my time tuning. Then it might be possible to build a $20k STOL plane.

I really see the CH-750 as being at least $50k when done, by the time you put in a minimal panel, and TMX-O200, $22K+ for air-frame. This is getting up to what an RV-12 is going cost, which is over $60k. I got into all this to have an inexpensive plane  that I could maintain, and that was new. $50k can buy you a real nice airplane in todays economy. Pretty soon a real nice super-cub, if the economy keeps falling.



This entire kit build business seems to be heading to 'builder assist' for rich people, where the end result is a plane that costs the same as a CIRRUS.

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SA

Mark said it is the same as in, it will fit, but it is thicker. I verified the thickness visually. I think the whole thing was about the tight fit for bigger guys and gals. To day while hanging out waiting for my family to catch up with me. A guy who looks to have been 6'2" tried both airplanes and was very impressed with the 750 due to fit alone.



Kevin

do not archive

rbjjr

Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 36

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SA

Thanks for the reply.



I personally like the potential of the Corvair and it seems pretty viable for the 701 based on some recent developments by William Wynn and others.  It also seems to be a good candidate for the 750.



How much does an O-200 cost, I wonder?  If its as much as the Rotax, where's the advantage?



Thanks



Burke CH701

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SA

I've never looked at the cost of a new 0-200 but it is, very proven. The Rotax due to the redrive , I believe has a little more prop torque. 

The Fly Corvair engine in the Zenith booth had a 5th bearing and there is now , a new, forged crank available. The Corvair is now IMHO a good candidate for a STOL airplane for a lot less then ether of the other two.



Kevin

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: Re: The CH 750 has arrived!!! - The 701/750 rudder is the SA

I'm 6'3" and the 750 was a good comfortable fit for me.  Leg room is usually the problem, but the 750 was fine.



If I were looking for a project right now, the 750 would be on the short list for sure.  You guys are going to have a good time with this one.



- Pat

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