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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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 Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: Flap alignment |
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OK, we aligned the flaps, ailerons, wingtips today. Obviously everything starts with the flaps in the raised position. But there are adjustments on the flaps, so how do you know what the correct raised position is? The instructions for length of the connecting rods are a start, but how do you know when it's perfect?
Not being a pilot, I just stuck a straight edge on the upper surface of the wing and adjusted the flaps to be on that same plane to get started. But now at home on the computer, I thought I'd better check since I thought I remembered reading about slight up angle on trailing edge for both ailerons for speed, etc.
I've searched the archives and Tim's site, and sure enough, I found a reference by Tim to a -3 degree in the up position of the flaps.
Can someone confirm this for us? With the flaps/ailerons on the same plane as the upper wing surface, I have both trailing ends of the wingtips about 1/4 inch above the ailerons. I'm ready to reshape the wingtip ends tomorrow, but they would be close to being right if there is "up" built into the flap/aileron position.
The wingtips are also slightly less than 1/4 inch too short -- as opposed to the early ones that were too long. Is that a problem? It wouldn't take much to add resin/flox to lengthen them a bit. Heck, everything else is coming together so fine, I might as well make that right too -- I just need to know what "right" is!
Later, - Lew
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rene(at)felker.com
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: Flap alignment |
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I did my wing tips while my wings were on the stand and just put the flaps
all the way up to the stops, then aligned the aileron...then the wing tip.
When I put the wings on the airplane and when I did the final alignment, I
pulled the flaps all the way up and then did the final rigging of the
aileron. Early in the flight testing I had a heavy left wing and in an
effort to figure out where it was coming from, I checked the position of the
flaps in the "up" position, 3 degree reflex. I noted that the right flap
was not all the way in the reflex position. I fixed that, and my heavy left
wing is all but gone.
Rene'
801-721-6080
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Flap alignment |
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Thanks Rene',
So -3 degrees it is? Just where in the heck do they tell you that?! And the "stops" are just when the leading edge of the flap bumps the spar? I think that leaves a fair amount of inaccuracy -- I like the -3 degrees better. It shouldn't be too hard to make a quick jig.
This seems like a fairly critical setting and I'm surprised I couldn't find it addressed in the plans.
We'll probably give Van's a call, but they're 3 hrs. behind us and we want to get this nailed so we can get the wings back off today.
Later, - Lew
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rene(at)felker.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: Flap alignment |
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The plans have you bringing the flap up to the stop. I do not remember if
they ref 3 degrees or if I got that number form the list. Either way, I
used my digital level to determine the 3 degrees. Measured the angle of the
top skin and made sure flap was 3 degrees reflex. When I originally set the
aileron and wing tip, I had the wings in the vertical stands and just pulled
the flap up to the stop, clamped the flap and aileron together and then went
to work on the wing tips.
I am also using the flap positioning system, but you know I have not checked
to see if the first stop is really 0 degrees, I think I may the next time I
am at the hanger.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: Flap alignment |
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Lew,
The best way I have seen to get the flaps correctly rigged is to have
them installed on the plane and to raise them to the point that the
bottom of the flap is flush with the bottom of the fuselage. Also,
both flaps should reach this point at the same time. If it possible
for one to reach this point early and put extra strain on the flap rod
while the motor reaches full up. If this happens, when you drop the
flaps the plane will want to roll because one flap will deploy more
than the other. BTW, you will have to file down the end of the flap
to remove any clearance issues with the side of the fuselage, and
don't forget that there will be paint added, so leave a little room
for paint, while not leaving a big gaping hole.
The length on all of the pushrods can vary a little based on different
components in the system. On the flaps, if you don't have them
drilled and bolted with the exact dimensions as the plans call for,
this can change the length of the pushrod. It's best to get it close
and then install it and adjust for full retraction and deployment of
the flaps and then snug up the jam nuts and mark which one is right
and left for reinstallation after the wings go back on, unless (of
course) you are rigging them with the final wing installation.
Also something I have seen in the Aileron rigging. It is not
uncommon, from what I have seen, to have the pushrod that connects to
the aileron itself to have clearance issues with the aileron attach
hinge when in full down. Make sure you don't have that issue when
rigging.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Aug 3, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Lew Gallagher wrote:
| Quote: |
OK, we aligned the flaps, ailerons, wingtips today. Obviously
everything starts with the flaps in the raised position. But there
are adjustments on the flaps, so how do you know what the correct
raised position is? The instructions for length of the connecting
rods are a start, but how do you know when it's perfect?
Not being a pilot, I just stuck a straight edge on the upper surface
of the wing and adjusted the flaps to be on that same plane to get
started. But now at home on the computer, I thought I'd better
check since I thought I remembered reading about slight up angle on
trailing edge for both ailerons for speed, etc.
I've searched the archives and Tim's site, and sure enough, I found
a reference by Tim to a -3 degree in the up position of the flaps.
Can someone confirm this for us? With the flaps/ailerons on the
same plane as the upper wing surface, I have both trailing ends of
the wingtips about 1/4 inch above the ailerons. I'm ready to
reshape the wingtip ends tomorrow, but they would be close to being
right if there is "up" built into the flap/aileron position.
The wingtips are also slightly less than 1/4 inch too short -- as
opposed to the early ones that were too long. Is that a problem?
It wouldn't take much to add resin/flox to lengthen them a bit.
Heck, everything else is coming together so fine, I might as well
make that right too -- I just need to know what "right" is!
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196346#196346
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: Flap alignment |
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Here is a picture of Van's flap in the up position.
http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/1100252_iPQ2t#53383949_nGRvz-A-LB
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2008 7:28:44 AM
Subject: Re: Flap alignment
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)>
Lew,
The best way I have seen to get the flaps correctly rigged is to have
them installed on the plane and to raise them to the point that the
bottom of the flap is flush with the bottom of the fuselage. Also,
both flaps should reach this point at the same time. If it possible
for one to reach this point early and put extra strain on the flap rod
while the motor reaches full up. If this happens, when you drop the
flaps the plane will want to roll because one flap will deploy more
than the other. BTW, you will have to file down the end of the flap
to remove any clearance issues with the side of the fuselage, and
don't forget that there will be paint added, so leave a little room
for paint, while not leaving a big gaping hole.
The length on all of the pushrods can vary a little based on different
components in the system. On the flaps, if you don't have them
drilled and bolted with the exact dimensions as the plans call for,
this can change the length of the pushrod. It's best to get it close
and then install it and adjust for full retraction and deployment of
the flaps and then snug up the jam nuts and mark which one is right
and left for reinstallation after the wings go back on, unless (of
course) you are rigging them with the final wing installation.
Also something I have seen in the Aileron rigging. It is not
uncommon, from what I have seen, to have the pushrod that connects to
the aileron itself to have clearance issues with the aileron attach
hinge when in full down. Make sure you don't have that issue when
rigging.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Aug 3, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Lew Gallagher wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net (lewgall(at)charter.net)>
OK, we aligned the flaps, ailerons, wingtips today. Obviously
everything starts with the flaps in the raised position. But there
are adjustments on the flaps, so how do you know what the correct
raised position is? The instructions for length of the connecting
rods are a start, but how do you know when it's perfect?
Not being a pilot, I just stuck a straight edge on the upper surface
of the wing and adjusted the flaps to be on that same plane to get
started. But now at home on the computer, I thought I'd better
check since I thought I remembered reading about slight up angle on
trailing edge for both ailerons for speed, etc.
I've searched the archives and Tim's site, and sure enough, I found
a reference by Tim to a -3 degree in the up position of the flaps.
Can someone confirm this for us? With the flaps/ailerons on the
same plane as the upper wing surface, I have both trailing ends of
the wingtips about 1/4 inch above the ailerons. I'm ready to
reshape the wingtip ends tomorrow, but they would be close to being
right if there is "up" built into the flap/aileron position.
The wingtips are also slightly less [quote][b]
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Flap alignment |
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DONE! Thanks for your timely responses. I made a -3 degree jig and went with that. Miraculously, when I adjusted the ailerons to the new flap position, the wing tips were dead on! Unbelievable, made my day.
We started early while it was still cool and had the new adjustments made, all push rod locknuts tightened and safety painted, then disassembled and wings off and back in the garage by the time Van's opened up (12 noon our time). And none too soon since it hit 98 today.
So we didn't bother to check with Van's.
Scott and Jessie, thanks for the tip of looking at the corner relative to the fuse bottom edge. I did go ahead and trim the inner edge of the flaps to give a good clearance. And with the -3 degree setting, the corner is just a bit lower than the edge -- close enough since I don't want to mess with the great wingtip alignment.
Later, - Lew
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: Flap alignment |
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Did you find that the flap was basically bottomed out on the
spar when you were at -3 degrees? As far as I remember, the
alignment process starts with the flaps tight against the rear
spar...and that's about where the -3 is...and everything aligns
to that. If your flaps though are below the fuselage when they're
all the way at -3, you're almost definitely looking at drooped
flaps...and it'll cost you a couple kts at best. So how close
is your jig-measured -3 degress to the flaps bottoming out?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Lew Gallagher wrote:
| Quote: |
<lewgall(at)charter.net>
DONE! Thanks for your timely responses. I made a -3 degree jig and
went with that. Miraculously, when I adjusted the ailerons to the
new flap position, the wing tips were dead on! Unbelievable, made my
day.
We started early while it was still cool and had the new adjustments
made, all push rod locknuts tightened and safety painted, then
disassembled and wings off and back in the garage by the time Van's
opened up (12 noon our time). And none too soon since it hit 98
today. So we didn't bother to check with Van's.
Scott and Jessie, thanks for the tip of looking at the corner
relative to the fuse bottom edge. I did go ahead and trim the inner
edge of the flaps to give a good clearance. And with the -3 degree
setting, the corner is just a bit lower than the edge -- close enough
since I don't want to mess with the great wingtip alignment.
Later, - Lew
-------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Engine and FF here, now cowl and baffels,waiting on prop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196492#196492
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: Re: Flap alignment |
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Hey Tim,
Dang, I was afraid you were too busy with Osh to chime in before Mon. !
Looks like we'll revisit the alignment after all. Fortunately, like just about everything else, we get really good about the third time we re-do stuff.
The flaps were a bit shy of bumping, and a bit shy of the -3 jig, but MAN those wing tip alignments just got the best of me! In hindsight (of COURSE) the tip up above the fuse edge makes sense in terms of drag.
It will give us a chance to try out our flex, braided fuel lines we had made up yesterday -- we really didn't like our "S" turns in the Van's fuel lines from tank to fuse. So we cut them off at the fuse and flared them for the hose there.
And the plane in the driveway with the wings attached really gives the neighbors something to gawk at -- almost caused several wrecks!
Later, - Lew
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
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crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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