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Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

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johnwigney(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

Dear Europaphiles,



I have been busy over the last few weeks and have also been to Oshkosh 

so have been unable to join the recent discussion on stall and AOA 

warning. I hope you will forgive me for a lengthy discourse on this and 

another safety topic.



Before I started building my Europa, I had been reading aviation 

publications for many years. I came to the conclusion that in sport 

aviation there are two very common and preventable accident types and 

that these cause many fatalities. I therefore decided to equip my plane 

to minimise the risk.



Firstly - Running out of fuel. Some but not all of these incidents are 

fatal.. I recommend a fuel flow meter with a display to show endurance 

and fuel remaining, preferably with an alarm at 4 gallons say. An 

independent capacitance gauge display is also wise for redundancy.



Secondly - Stall and spin accidents on approach. Low down and in the 

pattern, these are often fatal. A stall warning or an AOA warning unit 

will save your life in these situations. I find it puzzling that there 

is not more attention paid to the this hazard at airshows and similar 

events where there is busy traffic, many distractions and sometimes 

confusing instructions from controllers. We are all aware of Cliff 

Shaw's fatal accident at Oshkosh in 2006 which upset our Europa 

community greatly. Having just come back from Oshkosh where there was 

yet another stall spin accident with a Lancair on final approach in good 

weather (2 fatalities), I decided to do a study of the available FAA 

data. I  found the information to be very interesting.



At the Sun N Fun and Oshkosh shows only, from 1988 to 2008, there have 

been 14 stall, and stall spin accidents. There were 13 fatalities, 9 

uninjured and 2 minor injuries. I believe that many of these could have 

been prevented if a stall or AOA warning unit was in use. If anyone is 

interested I can send the details. I have no idea how many similar 

accidents have occurred at other airports. I suspect it is quite high.



As Michael Grass explained in a recent email, I have the Advanced Flight 

Systems AOA unit mounted  in a Head Up Display type of installation with 

a small retractable mirror. It is on top of the panel and directly in 

the field of view on approach; it needs no head turning. This setup is 

not a must-have but it is nice.The unit adjusts for flaps up or down and 

gives an insistent "ANGLE, ANGLE, PUSH" instruction in the headsets. 

Again, if anyone would like a photo of that installation, please let me 

know. Any unit is better than none. Dynon, Rite Angle AOA from EM 

Aviation, the Europa stall warner, etc. are all very good units.



Cheers, John



N262WF, mono XS, 912S

Mooresville, North Carolina

EAA Technical Counselor No. 5182

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

Good morning John,

  

 If you happen to have a pix of your mirror setup I would be very  interested. I have mounted my AOA LED display on the instrument panel as high  and close to center as possible, but have been giving thought as to a poor man's  HUD by mounting it from inside the IM and have it reflect on the windshield. But  I am not sure if it's bright enough for this task, so a properly located mirror  may be much better.

  

 Thanks in advance.   

 Mike Duane  A207A

Redding, California

XS Conventional Gear

Jabiru  3300A

Sensenich R64Z N

Ground Adjustable  Prop





Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

Venu Rao

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Texas

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

Here's a pic of what Jim Nelson did for an AOA on 058.It's an Advanced Flight Systems AOA Pro.

Very slick - still learning how to calibrate it.

Cheers,

Venu Rao

Austin, Texas

Europa - Mono

A-058 Flying

119.8 hours

Builder: James Nelson

"Flying is a compromise with the elements one does not need to challenge"

- Capt. K.G. Rao, Dir. of Ops (retd), Air-India

[img]cid:556A65F1-A02A-416C-A74D-0464097D4468(at)austin.rr.com[/img][img]cid:AAB2BCF4-ED27-4749-B110-AFAE65D31120(at)austin.rr.com[/img] 

 



[img]cid:7E1CFFE2-7563-4816-9593-90975F66C124(at)austin.rr.com[/img]

On Aug 4, 2008, at 9:18 PM, John & Paddy Wigney wrote:

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_________________
Venu Rao
Austin, TX
Europa Mono
Builder: Jim Nelson
TTAE 119.1 hrs

Mark Burton

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 74

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

Folks,



Although it is neither an AOA system or a stall warner, my SmartASS unit (www.smartavionics.com) will help the pilot to maintain a safe margin of speed above the stall on approach. I sincerely believe that if such a system had been in use, it may well have been sufficient to prevent some of the  stall/spin on approach accidents that have occurred.



With a SmartASS working in "speed director mode", on approach, a calm (female) voice talks to you about your speed. If the speed is about right, she occasionally, says "speed good". If the speed is wrong, she says "slow" (or "fast"), if the speed is very wrong, she says "very slow", (or "very fast"). The voice is normally not very intrusive. If the speed is insanely slow/fast you get a loud DING as well. The unit is G sensitive so it factors the vertical acceleration into the speed calculation so if you are pulling G, it reports slowness even if the actual airspeed is correct. 



When you start using the speed director it seems quite fussy, always telling you to slow down or speed up. But once you have flown a few approaches with it and smoothed out your flying it becomes completely normal to have this little voice in the background making comments and because you are used to listening and reacting to what she tells you (makes a change, eh?), you follow the suggestions and so the approach speed is maintained close to the chosen value with very little effort on the part of the pilot.



The point I am making is that once you are used to using it, taking in and reacting to the information presented by the SmartASS becomes so easy it's almost subliminal. From a flight safety point of view, I believe that is good because it frees up some valuable pilot mental effort and allows the pilot to concentrate more on lookout/spatial awareness.



A stall warning system is better than nothing because you may hear it and react, but then again, (when the pressure is on) you may not.



I have not used an AOA system but I would expect with a good HUD they would be OK when the pilot is looking straight ahead. The audio option could be useful as long as the brain hasn't switched off due to overload.



Mark

cfrhoads(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

__________________________________________________________

Chuck Rhoads

cfrhoads(at)yahoo.com

322 Links Dr.

Simpsonville, KY 40067

(502) 410-1357 



 

 ---

loboloda(at)execulink.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

I could have used this unit on the weekend, when a gusting crosswind  

gave me a push from behind as I came over the numbers.

The groundspeed convinced me that my airspeed was way high, when the   

the stall warner squealed it took a while for its warning to make it  

through to my

brain, as at that point I was more concerned with tracking straight  

and wondering why the end of the runway was getting closer so quickly.

Not one of my most elegant arrivals.

Rather than a polite lady's voice, at that point I probably needed an  

instructors voice bellowing that " you are about to make a complete  

cock up of this landing"



Dave



Do not archive

On 5-Aug-08, at 3:59 AM, Mark Burton wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Folks,



 Although it is neither an AOA system or a stall warner, my SmartASS  

 unit (www.smartavionics.com) will help the pilot to maintain a safe  

 margin of speed above the stall on approach. I sincerely believe  

 that if such a system had been in use, it may well have been  

 sufficient to prevent some of the  stall/spin on approach accidents  

 that have occurred.



 With a SmartASS working in "speed director mode", on approach, a  

 calm (female) voice talks to you about your speed. If the speed is  

 about right, she occasionally, says "speed good". If the speed is  

 wrong, she says "slow" (or "fast"), if the speed is very wrong, she  

 says "very slow", (or "very fast"). The voice is normally not very  

 intrusive. If the speed is insanely slow/fast you get a loud DING  

 as well. The unit is G sensitive so it factors the vertical  

 acceleration into the speed calculation so if you are pulling G, it  

 reports slowness even if the actual airspeed is correct.



 When you start using the speed director it seems quite fussy,  

 always telling you to slow down or speed up. But once you have  

 flown a few approaches with it and smoothed out your flying it  

 becomes completely normal to have this little voice in the  

 background making comments and because you are used to listening  

 and reacting to what she tells you (makes a change, eh?), you  

 follow the suggestions and so the approach speed is maintained  

 close to the chosen value with very little effort on the part of  

 the pilot.



 The point I am making is that once you are used to using it, taking  

 in and reacting to the information presented by the SmartASS  

 becomes so easy it's almost subliminal. From a flight safety point  

 of view, I believe that is good because it frees up some valuable  

 pilot mental effort and allows the pilot to concentrate more on  

 lookout/spatial awareness.



 A stall warning system is better than nothing because you may hear  

 it and react, but then again, (when the pressure is on) you may not.



 I have not used an AOA system but I would expect with a good HUD  

 they would be OK when the pilot is looking straight ahead. The  

 audio option could be useful as long as the brain hasn't switched  

 off due to overload.



 Mark





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196563#196563

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

Hi! Dave.

On a light note in line with your "instructors voice" suggestion. There

is a voice option on some "Sat nav's" which is Ossie Osbourne's voice

with a few choice "F.....F.....'s" in the appropriate places. I'm sure

Mark's partner Helen wouldn't mind stepping her voice aside for the

Ossie option!

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG

Do not archive.



--

Mark Burton

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 74

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

Folks,



I have been busy. You can now see a demo video of the SmartASS

being used on approach. It's simulated, but real. By that I mean that

the video has been captured from a computer flight simulator but the 

audio is being produced by a real SmartASS unit being fed the simulated

airspeed and G.



The simulation aircraft is a wallowing pig (aka C172), something I never fly in real life (I hope the real thing is nicer to fly!)



In the video, I deliberately pull back sharply to demonstrate how the SmartASS can detect the increased wing loading before the airspeed has dropped significantly.



The video is 11MB in size and probably plays best if you first download it

to your computer and then play the local copy (saves my bandwidth too).



The URL is: http://www.smartavionics.com/smartass-videos.html



Cheers,



Mark

riddon(at)sent.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

As a very happy user of a SmartAss, I would comment that I believe it

has made my landing approaches safer and improved my landings

considerably by allowing me to keep my head out of the cockpit on

approach. I would thoroughly recommend this piece of kit. 



Richard Iddon  G-RIXS



--

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: Safety matters including stall and AOA warning units

I fully indorse Richards's views, having only flown 50 hours with the

first 25 not using it; I personally wouldn't like to revert to an ASI

only,

It's a great bit of kit,



Ivor Phillips

G-IVER



--

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