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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: 91 octane, time to be heard! |
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If you are happy with just 100LL stop here. You won't like where this is going.
This effects us all even in other countries because one tends to follow the other at some point.
If you are tired of someone saying we can't have 91 octane, read on. It's time to pick a side and take 5 minutes to email. Our lives as people are good because someone didn't just say ok. Some took the time to make change and made it better for all of us. If we choose to sit on the sideline and just go along then we deserve what we get. I would implore all to take a minute and email these two people and any other fuel administrator in other companies. I will post on as many aviation websites as possible and I would you all to pick a side and stand up to be heard and maybe, just maybe we might effect change. I for one don't want to roll over. You are about to read a bulletin about the use of Chevron ground fuel verses aviation fuel. Then I have a response.
Don't sit back and pick my memo apart, use that time to write your own and be heard. Post this on all your aviation websites. Let them hear a nation wide voice.
Send your emails to:
LIMG(at)chevron.com
kayalbitz(at)chevron.com
or any other fuel company administrator.
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2008-04 2008-04 Bulletin 2008-04 Chevron Position Autogas for Aviation Use.pdf |
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147.02 KB |
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401 Time(s) |
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Ryan Memo.doc |
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80.5 KB |
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392 Time(s) |
_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! |
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Hi Everyone,
Every website I posted on and I sent the letters to Flight Design have people speaking up in support. I have received dozens of emails in support and that is just since last night.
One voice will dye, but thousands may be heard.
Everyone,
Don't sit ideally and complain. 1-2 minutes of your time is all anyone is asking. It's your future and your time to offer your hand in a worthwhile effort to help shape it. Do it for yourself if not for anyone else.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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brian-douglas(at)uiowa.ed
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: 91 octane, time to be heard! |
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According to the Lycoming folks at OSH, they're pushing for an ATSM 93
octane mogas standard. We'll see what comes of it, but I'm lead to
believe the legislative exemption that allows the use of leaded fuel in
airplanes expires in 2010. Supposedly the EPA is interested getting the
ball rolling on an alternative fuel that doesn't compromise safety,
usability, etc etc. Again, we'll see....
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
#40497
[quote] --
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! |
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"...but I'm lead to believe the legislative exemption that allows the use of leaded fuel in airplanes expires in 2010."
This is correct. The 30 year waiver expires in 2010. It's part of a world-wide treaty banning TEL. To my knowledge, there is only one manufacturer of TEL left, and it is located somewhere in the UK. The UK has already said they will enforce the ban, which means that the source will be gone.
The outcome is obvious. They will start filling those AvGas trucks with ordinary 91-93 octane high test (although they might call it something special). Ethanol is mixed in after manufacture, so there will be a chain-of-control while the fuel is in transit to ensure it's Ethanol free (assuming the various governments allow aviation an exemption). Expect to pay plenty for that chain-of control. You will then be forced to de-rate your engine. I would expect the engine manufacturers to come out with new horsepower and limitations for their existing engines. The only real issue will be Takeoff power and Go around. Cruise should be the same. I guess climb settings might be effected, as well. I guess the Warbirds at Oshkosh will be a little less impressive to boot.
I've heard that there is a Purdue University group starting a thing called Swiftfuel, or something like that. It's supposed to be a bio-fuel that can achieve 104 octane - we'll see.
My uneducated guess is that the final solution should be in place by October of 2009, to ensure an uninterrupted supply chain. Whatever the final solution is, the manufacturers will need to make some kind of commitment before the end of this year. Have you ever noticed that panic deadlines are the only way Americans get anything done?
John
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#40572 Phase One complete in 2011 |
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: 91 octane, time to be heard! |
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SwiftFuel is a real thing and is currently being evaluated by the FAA for a drop in replacement of 100LL. It's been developed specifically for 100LL replacement rather than it being a side benefit. Interestingly the feedstock for it is Ethanol but it's a synthetic hydrocarbon once the process is complete so there is no Ethanol remaining. If all the benefits hold true and it can be mass produced, we will be much better off and it will cost less. There have been articles in Avweb and other places about it. More info here:
http://www.swiftenterprises.com/
Michael
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: 91 octane, time to be heard! |
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Current avgas has exactly the same chain of control. There are other solutions, just each have technical issues. MTBE for example is around 104 octane, but any leaks contaminate soil and water very easily. ETBE is even higher octane, a bit more costly and presumably less of environmental problem. (MTBE is derived from methanol, ETBE from ethanol). Current avgas, minus the TEL can be blended to 96 octane, which is okay for all but turbocharged engines. The IO-540 used in the RV-10 with 8.5 compression will be fine with anything over 91 octane as it was originally certified on 91/96, just like the O-360 with same compression. So main issue is getting suppliers and FBOs to agree with ASTM as to what the standard is going to be. As has been mentioned before, Lycoming is close to having a FADEC system that will incorporate knock sensing and timing adjustment.
On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 1:11 PM, johngoodman <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net (johngoodman(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net (johngoodman(at)earthlink.net)>
"...but I'm lead to believe the legislative exemption that allows the use of leaded fuel in airplanes expires in 2010."
This is correct. The 30 year waiver expires in 2010. It's part of a world-wide treaty banning TEL. To my knowledge, there is only one manufacturer of TEL left, and it is located somewhere in the UK. The UK has already said they will enforce the ban, which means that the source will be gone.
The outcome is obvious. They will start filling those AvGas trucks with ordinary 91-93 octane high test (although they might call it something special). Ethanol is mixed in after manufacture, so there will be a chain-of-control while the fuel is in transit to ensure it's Ethanol free (assuming the various governments allow aviation an exemption). Expect to pay plenty for that chain-of control. You will then be forced to de-rate your engine. I would expect the engine manufacturers to come out with new horsepower and limitations for their existing engines. The only real issue will be Takeoff power and Go around. Cruise should be the same. I guess climb settings might be effected, as well. I guess the Warbirds at Oshkosh will be a little less impressive to boot.
I've heard that there is a Purdue University group starting a thing called Swiftfuel, or something like that. It's supposed to be a bio-fuel that can achieve 104 octane - we'll see.
My uneducated guess is that the final solution should be in place by October of 2009, to ensure an uninterrupted supply chain. Whatever the final solution is, the manufacturers will need to make some kind of commitment before the end of this year. Have you ever noticed that panic deadlines are the only way Americans get anything done?
John
--------
#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197189#197189
[b]
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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Geico266
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! |
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According to several engine manufacturs if you have standard pistons 8.5:1 you can run 92 MOGAS all day long. I've been burning it for years.
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