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Leading Edge

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jimh474(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: Leading Edge

Folks,



I agree with Ted Cowan, 2 known catastrophic leading edge failures out of 

thousands of Kolb's built and thousands of hours flown in all kinds of 

conditions doesn't warrant all this negative attitude towards primarily the 

5 rib wing. The 7 rib wing could have the same failure under the right 

conditions.



Homer and Dennis always made updates on the design when a problem was 

discovered. So many of the updates are already in these A/C that are being 

bought from the used market. In two instances this negative attitude has 

scared the crap out of two new Kolb owners for no reason.



I suggest the list refrain from making arbitrary statements to new comers 

that they are going to have a catastrophic failure if they fly with a 5 rib 

wing. This is pure BS.



Any wing regardless of type A/C under the right conditions will fail. Maybe 

from age, flying out of the design envelope or just a plain no answer why.



I merely suggested time proven fixes for those that wanted to use them.



In the case of my brothers failure,we examined the wings and this was the 

conclusion that we arrived at. The leading edge of the wings shifted 

outboard getting the ribs out of column and the leading edge folding up. The 

left wing went first and the right wing went second. The right wing more 

than likely failed from the instant acceleration forward.



In the future lets put our mind in gear before we put our typing fingers in 

motion and not expound on something we only heard of.



I hope that the two new comers reconsider about getting rid of their planes 

because of all the BS.



Jim Hauck

jdm(at)wideworld.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: Leading Edge

I just came from the airport where I  looked my plane over. I ended up 

pouring gas on it and burning it!



Just kidding! My plane  was meticulously cared for and it shows. I'm not 

discouraged and I'm not going to sell.  If I had more time I would have 

flown it today!  The weather is beautiful in the East today!  The loop noted 

in the log book was at 34 hours in 1989.  At 900 hours today, that was a 

long time ago and I'm not concerned.



I do appreciate everyone's input. I'm not an engineer so I'm not going to 

play one. I'm going to change nothing except my awareness while I'm flying 

and maintaining her!



It has given us all something to think about.  Flying safe!



---

Earl Zimmerman

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Elizabethtown, PA

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: Leading Edge

John Murr wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I just came from the airport where I  looked my plane over. I ended up 

 pouring gas on it and burning it!

 

 

 

 Just kidding! My plane  was meticulously cared for and it shows. I'm not 

 discouraged and I'm not going to sell.  If I had more time I would have 

 flown it today!  The weather is beautiful in the East today!  The loop noted 

 in the log book was at 34 hours in 1989.  At 900 hours today, that was a 

 long time ago and I'm not concerned.


	


Your the MAN John! It's supposed to be in the 70's this weekend. Lets go 

fly!    ~ Earl

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Leading Edge

 	  jimh474(at)earthlink.net wrote: 	
		  



In two instances this negative attitude has 

scared the crap out of two new Kolb owners for no reason.



I suggest the list refrain from making arbitrary statements to new comers 

that they are going to have a catastrophic failure if they fly with a 5 rib 

wing. This is pure BS.



	




I dont think anyone made arbitrary statements about the 5 rib wing.  In all my posts about it, I was very clear in telling the person that posted the question that this was a High Time, High stress issue.  I think in the case of JDM I think he should be worried.  Maybe at least this discussion will inspire him to install his BRS chute   .   If peope with low time average use firestars are getting scared because we are talking about this here, then they need to pay more attention to the details in the posts and educate themselves about fatigue.



Almost every plane in the world has fatigue and failures associated with high time airframes, including Kolbs.  We should post factual information that may save someone from getting hurt one day, which I think was done.  We should not be afraid to talk about this kind of stuff just because a few fail to understand the difference between high time fatigue and a low time safe to fly airplane.  I for one learn a huge amount on this list, and I hope people continue to post all known problems so that I can correct these things before they bite me.   That is exactly what this list is for.



Michael A. Bigelow

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

edchmiel(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: Leading Edge

Mike,



        You can't have it both ways.  I also took your posts as alarmist in 

nature.  Perhaps you should re-read before posting, with a more critical eye 

towards the tone of your comments.  Better yet, if you've no experience with 

limit-load fatigue with Kolb aircraft, then refrain from broad, generalized 

comments that might be misunderstood.



Ed in jXN

MkII/503

Do not archive.

---

jdm(at)wideworld.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

I am going to put the BRS on.

---

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Leading Edge

OK , You looked your plane over......What about the "LIFT STRUT"



 was there a chromemoly tube running the whole lenght.....



 Or do you have Holes drilled in your main support....?



           Gotta Fly...

jdm(at)wideworld.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

It's a chromemoly tube with a sleeve over it.  The tube runs between the 

two.  No holes in the lift strut.



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 OK , You looked your plane over......What about the "LIFT STRUT"



 was there a chromemoly tube running the whole lenght.....



 Or do you have Holes drilled in your main support....?



           Gotta Fly...



 --------

 The more people I know....

 The more I like MY DOG

 .

 .

 .

 .

 .Do not archive





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=19985#19985

kiwimick

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Location: ENGLAND

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:49 am Post subject: Leading Edge

John/All,

About time someone said that John, you only just beat me.

I will say only a couple of things.

Buy the Kolb for what it is and not something you want it to be!.

If you don't know what you are talking about then keep your gob shut!.

Please do not use this site as a Bitch fight place but instead use it for 

what it was intended for!.

If you think you know better than Homer, Dennis and all the team at TNK then 

apply for a job there!.

As with any aircraft, fly it outside the envelope and soon enough it will 

fail, Fly it as it was intended and you will probably be o.k!.

If you guys didn't think you know better than the designer and feel the need 

to modify the aircraft in the first place then half of the issues being 

discussed now would not even be relevant!.

The MkIII has been approved in the UK which holds the most stringent 

airworthiness regulations in the world, if the Kolb design was as terrible 

as some of you seem to think then it would have never been approved over 

here1.

If some of you spent more time maintaining and flying your Kolb than 

modifiying it, over loading it, and pushing it past the design limits, you 

would have far less time to be at your computer writing so much rubbish, and 

we might actually get some better posts again!.

We do want new people to come and Join the wonderful world of Kolb and not 

send them away from this site scared to death of ever getting into a Kolb.

Just put it into context.



Thats My Rant over, (sorry)



Mike Moulai

Xtra/Jab 2200 and happy with it

---

_________________
Mike the kiwi Kolber in England.......

flht99reh(at)netzero.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: Leading Edge

Mike, 



"The MkIII has been approved in the UK which holds the most stringent

airworthiness regulations in the world, if the Kolb design was as terrible

as some of you seem to think then it would have never been approved over

here1"



Isn't that the same country that discovered the "Piltdown man" you know that

ling between man and ape! Oh those scientists, they will do anything to gain

attention! Ha, HA!

USA, Ohio Ralph



--

wcm(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

Mike,

Amen to that my friend, well said.



Chris Mallory



Do not archive

kiwimick

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Location: ENGLAND

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

Hey Ralph, I am a Kiwi not a Pom, but I think I am directly related to 

sasquatch, not many Apes as hairy as me.



Mike

Do not archive

---

_________________
Mike the kiwi Kolber in England.......

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

not many Apes as hairy as me.

|

| Mike



Mike/Gang:



How do you keep from getting tangle in the pusher prop?



john h

hauck's holler, alabama



PS:  I'm back after a few days in Florida working on tractors, 

trailers and airplane mufflers.  Guess what?  My mufflers will last 

much longer, now that I have found out a new way to increase their 

life expectancy.  If one locks them up in the 5th wheel and leaves 

them in Woodville, FL, with Bro Jim, those SS buggers will probably 

last forever.    I remain grounded until I can get back down there 

to get them.  Jim has a key to the entrance door, but not the dad 

burned cargo door compartment.  ;-(



DO NOT ARCHIVE

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

esteuber(at)rochester.rr.
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

All,

     I can't believe you guys actually take advice from some of these old guys on the list......It seems to me that they are clearly crazy...They have readily admitted doing aerobatics in Kolbs of every type and one claims he went to the Arctic Circle a couple of times in a Kolb...even has  pictures to boot...and it gets worse...some of them have combat experience flying in Viet Nam ......and I bet they volunteered to do it !.......OH MY !

     I think I may never fly my Ultrastar again......at least not this week....too cold , anyway

                                                                                                                    Scared Ed in Western NY

                   do not archive

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Leading Edge

Hey John,

               That's where a "little" lock picking experiance comes in Handy



                    Gotta Fly...

                                    Mike in MN / Hobbie-Lock Picking

[quote= My mufflers will last 

much longer, now that I have found out a new way to increase their 

life expectancy.  If one locks them up in the 5th wheel and leaves 

them in Woodville, FL, with Bro Jim, those SS buggers will probably 

last forever.    



DO NOT ARCHIVE[/quote]

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

Easy Ralph



   These are likely the only firends we have left in the world..  



   I agree that their inspection and requirements are more stringent than

ours.. Do not always agree with some of their conclusions..  But would

rather deal with their volunteers over the FAA anytime...  Herb 

On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 12:42:06 -0500 "flht99reh" <flht99reh(at)netzero.net>

writes:

[quote] 

 

 Mike, 

 

 "The MkIII has been approved in the UK which holds the most 

 stringent

 airworthiness regulations in the world, if the Kolb design was as 

 terrible

 as some of you seem to think then it would have never been approved 

 over

 here1"

 

 Isn't that the same country that discovered the "Piltdown man" you 

 know that

 ling between man and ape! Oh those scientists, they will do anything 

 to gain

 attention! Ha, HA!

 

 

 USA, Ohio Ralph

 

 --

kiwimick

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Location: ENGLAND

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

John,

Why do you really think I chose a Jab with a 62" prop, Any larger dia prop I 

will get wound into It.



I never get cold though.



Mike

Moulai

Xtra/Jab 2200

---

_________________
Mike the kiwi Kolber in England.......

Kirk Smith

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 78
Location: SE Michigan

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

.....It seems to me that they are clearly crazy...

He is not crazy, he just has leading edge failures sometimes. Hell I had a

skeeter hit me just right once and it knocked my leading edge off  kilter.



Do not archive

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:44 am Post subject: Leading Edge

Isn't that the same country that discovered the "Piltdown man">>



Hi Ralph,



the point is the we knew it was a joke  all along. It was just that the rest 

of the world didn`t catch on



Cheers



Pat 



do not archive 



--

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: Leading Edge

Did Bro Jim  sleep thru Locks, Picks & Clicks????

do not archive



On Mar 7, 2006, at 6:09 PM, planecrazzzy wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com>



 Hey John,

                That's where a "little" lock picking experiance  

 comes in Handy



                     Gotta Fly...

                                     Mike in MN / Hobbie-Lock Picking

 [quote= My mufflers will last

 much longer, now that I have found out a new way to increase their

 life expectancy.  If one locks them up in the 5th wheel and leaves

 them in Woodville, FL, with Bro Jim, those SS buggers will probably

 last forever.  



 DO NOT ARCHIVE 	




 --------

 The more people I know....

 The more I like MY DOG

 .

 .

 .

 .

 .Do not archive





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=20205#20205


[/quote]

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