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"Heavy" wing on Series 7
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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have about 10 hours on my 7 now and I am loving it but I have a 

"heavy' left wing...I would think that turning the left front rod 

bearing out a few turn to raise the LE of the left wing a touch or 

do just the opposite to the right side would help but I wanted to 

get an opinion from the group.


	


That's what I had to do, Darin.  I turned them about 1/2 turn each 

time and would go fly to see how it did.  It took several iterations 

to get her to fly straight and level hands off, but it worked.  Make 

sure that you don't loosen any of them past the hole on the side.



Mike G.

N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster

Phoenix, AZ

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

I have a question as well.  How is the rudder trim.  I found that once I put 

the tab on the rudder, the wing lost weight.



Lowell



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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I have a question as well.  How is the rudder trim.  I found that 

once I put the tab on the rudder, the wing lost weight.


	


That's an excellent point, Lowell.  Before adjusting your lift 

struts, make sure that the slip/skid ball is centered when evaluating 

the problem.  I had to add a rudder tab as well as adjust the struts 

before I was happy with it.



Mike G.

N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster

Phoenix, AZ

jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

Darin,

	Determine if it is indeed a wing heavy or a yaw condition.



Give me a shout when you get a chance.



Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

Ph 208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com 

"The Sky is not the Limit...  It's a Playground" 



--

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

rear struts affect dihedral and incidence.  if the dihedral is where it should be adjust only the front struts, possibly 1/2 in and out on each.

  

 I love using a digital level when working with rigging adjustments.  a complete trial rig of the Hatz biplane took about an hour with a digital level to zero in on the values.

  

 John

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net> 



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" 

 

 I have about 10 hours on my 7 now and I am loving it but I have a "heavy' left 

 wing. I have adjusted the flaperons a bit to try to fix the problem but I don't 

 really want to move them much more. I know this condition can be fixed by 

 adjusting the struts but am unsure which end bearing to adjust and which way. 

 basically, while in cruise configuration my airplane tends to bank ever so 

 slightly to the left if I don't maintain some right stick pressure. It would be 

 awesome if these airplanes had a manual flaperon trim. Anyway, I would think 

 that turning the left front rod bearing out a few turn to raise the LE of the 

 left wing a to  uch or  BR>&gt  [quote][b]

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

I have the same problem in my Kitfox III.  I was told by a friend to be sure 

I had the ball centered.  My ball is on the right side of my panel so 

parallax was screwing up my view of the ball.  I plan to put a trim tab on 

the rudder to help.



Pete

Hell Paso, TX

Kitfox III Sn. 1000, 912, Grove



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_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: Re:

Thanks guys for the advice...the ball is centered and still tends to bank.  The bank is very slight, in fact, it is so slight that I think it may be simply from my weight on the left side without a passenger.  I don't think I will need a rudder trim tab and will try turning the struts out or in 1/2 turn at a time.

_________________
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

I have been flying my 5/7 for four years now and have still not adjusted

anything.  The reason is that I can not decide what to adjust.  Sometimes it

is the left wing that is low and sometimes it is the right wing.  Nothing is

too bad.



I know that it partly depends upon if I am climbing hard, or have the engine

pulled to idle in a descent, but (in cruise) I think it also depends upon

whether I have a passenger or not.  I suggest that you wait until you do

some test flights with some concrete bags in the right seat.



Lowell's point has given me more ammunition for procrastination.   



Randy



--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

The right wing of my model 3 was also 'heavy.' I was thinking to adjust the struts but then I first measured the angle of each wing at the root and the tip. I don't remember exactly but I think it was 11 and 13.5 degrees (taildragger!). Also, 2.5 degrees washout. And it was exactly the same for both wing. So I thought it wouldn't be wise to change the struts. I also considered the rudder but this 'leaning to the right' happens with the ball in the center.

I then went for this solution: A small piece of aluminium bended downward near the root of the left flaperon. It did the trick. Unfortunately it was only provisory fixed with double-side tape and I lost it. I must make a new one and fix it better. But ... first I need my pilot license back! 



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... grounded.

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

KITFOXZ(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

As a former modeler, I always say get a balanced and true aircraft first by  looking at adjusting CG, dihedral, wing wash out, rudder trim, etc. for  hands off trim with power off.  That way when you are dead stick you don't  have your hands full trimming and looking for a spot to land at the same  time.  Once set up perfectly for glide, the only complication with power  on should be to adjust side thrust and/or down thrust as needed to get a  tame aircraft with minimal trim change.

  

 My 2 cents.  Now I'm going back to eternal lurking.........

  

 John Z. 

  

  In a message dated 8/20/2008 3:32:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  gerns25(at)netscape.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh"    <gerns25(at)netscape.net>



Thanks guys for the advice...the ball is    centered and still tends to bank.  The bank is very slight, in fact, it    is so slight that I think it may be simply from my weight on the left side    without a passenger.  I don't think I will need a rudder trim tab and    will try turning the struts out or in 1/2 turn at a    time.



--------

Darin Hawkes

Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight    Testing)

914 Turbo

Kaysville, Utah





Read this topic    online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199683#199683

	




It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.

  [quote][b]

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

Darin - my model 2 tends to bank slightly to the left also, when it's just

me and no fuel in the reserve tank. With a passenger in the right seat or

fuel in the (right, I only have 1) reserve fuel tank it loses the bank, with

a passenger and reserve fuel it will bank right. So I figure it's set up

just right!



I would suggest you try all loading configurations before making changes.

BTW my rudder has a right-deflecting permanent trim tab, to minimise the

effect I think.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa



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dwight purdy

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 85

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

It just so happens I took my feet off of the rudder peddles last week and 

after about 700 hours I found the plane turns 90 deg per minute to the 

right. The ball is centered and the wings are level. I could hardly believe 

it. I know you have to fly the rudder on the early models but I can not 

believe I never noticed it before. The vertical fin does not look to have 

any offset to counter torque. Have not looked at the builders manual to see 

what was recommended. The only recent change to airframe is the King Fox 

tires. Maybe misalignment of wheels multiplied by the huge tires? I doubt 

that as it is too close to the yaw axis(is that the vertical axis? been too 

long since ground school). My hand out of the door was nil. I hate to put a 

trim on the rudder but would relieve tension in my left foot .

  Dwight Purdy

model ll

At 10:11 AM 8/20/2008 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

>

>

>I have a question as well.  How is the rudder trim.  I found that once I 

>put the tab on the rudder, the wing lost weight.

That's an excellent point, Lowell.  Before adjusting your lift struts, 

make sure that the slip/skid ball is centered when evaluating the 

problem.  I had to add a rudder tab as well as adjust the struts before I 

was happy with it.

Mike G.

N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster

Phoenix, AZ

270.6.5/1620 - Release Date: 8/19/2008 6:04 AM

_________________
dwight
model II

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

Not to long ago C there was a post on either this or the Avid list about someone that had rigged up a lazer level on the wings that would shoot a dot onto the hangar wall  that was compared to a level line on the wall and the wings were adjusted to being the same that way.  They said it really worked great and was much more acurate than just a level C and everyone on the field wanted him to do it to their plane.  I have yet to try it C but I intend to do it one of these days.  Jim Chuk

 Kitfox 4 building C Avid MK IV flying C Avid B just sold.  MN



 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Wed C 20 Aug 2008 09:40:42 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 From: MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net

 Subject: Re: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net>

 

 >I have about 10 hours on my 7 now and I am loving it but I have a 

 >"heavy' left wing...I would think that turning the left front rod 

 >bearing out a few turn to raise the LE of the left wing a touch or 

 >do just the opposite to the right side would help but I wanted to 

 >get an opinion from the group.

 

 That's what I had to do C Darin. I turned them about 1/2 turn each 

 time and would go fly to see how it did. It took several iterations 

 to get her to fly straight and level hands off C but it worked. Make 

 sure that you don't loosen any of them past the hole on the side.

 

 Mike G.

 N728KF C Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster

 Phoenix C AZ

 > 

 

 


	


Get thousands of games on your PC C your mobile phone C anddirect/01/' target='_new'>Game with Windows  [quote][b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:34 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: darinh [gerns25(at)netscape.net]

 You are right, the flaperons will simply find neutral...


	


Of course they will, Darin. But there is still the possibility that e.g. there is a slight warping in one of the flaperons. That would affect the banking attitude because, as I wrote, using a small trim tab on my left flaperon helped.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... grounded.

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

any bias between left and right adjustment should be toward increasing washout rather than washin.

  

 John

  

  ======  >>  [b]

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

Good point John!  

   

Thanks,  

Randy  

   

Do not archive.  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kerrjohna(at)comcast.net

 Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 9:46 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: "Heavy" wing on Series 7  

  

     

any bias between left and right adjustment should be toward increasing washout rather than washin.  

    

   

    

John  

    

   

  

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_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

57_kid

Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 50

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

I think that just about everyone has done that  me included sounds like it

would work but alas no good just moves the stick over a bit

Steve



--

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: Re:

Did some more testing this morning and it is definitely a heavy wing.  I think a turn or so in on the right front strut will to the trick.  As John stated, it is better to increase wash-out than wash-in.  Thanks for all the input.

_________________
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: Re:

 	  darinh wrote: 	
		   I think a turn or so in on the right front strut will to the trick.  As John stated, it is better to increase wash-out than wash-in.  Thanks for all the input. 	




Darin,

Unless my mind is a little twisted this morning, "turning in" the right front will decrease the wash out in the right wing.  Shortening or "turning in" the left rear will increase the wash out on the left wing and create more lift on that side.



Travis

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: "Heavy" wing on Series 7

Twisted Yes,



Jan



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