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lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo
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 Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
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Thank you Sam!
Darrell
--- On Thu, 8/28/08, Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Slick Mag Health Check-up
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 7:42 AM
<sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
> mark it is rick not nick the first post i told you
what to look for.
>
> i have posted the manual and told you what we do for
this inspection.
> if i have to put it in big letters i will.slick mags
are junk. given
> half a chance they will kill you. ask any mag shop
what they think
> about them. they are plastic pieces of crap and i
would not have them
> on my aircraft.
Rick,
I appreciate you posting the Slick magneto manual, that is
a very useful
resource.
However, you have repeatedly, and I mean repeatedly, stated
your disgust
with Slick magnetos. In my opinion, your statement above
completed the
process of destroying any credibility you have with me, and
I'm
confident, with many other RVers. To state that Slick mags
will "kill
you" shows a lack of grounding in reality.
I have no idea why you feel so strongly about this matter,
but it is
obvious your strong feelings have clouded any objectivity
you may have
about the mag issue. I had a long professional relationship
with an A&P
whom I deeply respected, and we discussed the longevity of
the Slick
mags on my *experimental* plane at the time we freshened
them. We were
able to replace points, cam, condenser, and bearings for
about $250 per mag.
The opinion of the A&Ps I've discussed Slick mags
with is that yes, they
do have a finite life span, and more than likely it is best
to replace
them if they cause problems after several hundred hours of
service. But
I have never heard a pro express the vitriol toward Slick
mags that you
continue to spew on this list.
I respect your right to express your opinion, but
personally, I put no
stock in what you have expressed.
Sam Buchanan
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
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In a message dated 8/28/2008 4:05:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time, rickpegser(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | | when you ask for advice, and someone with 25 yrs of experiance, offers you it for free, and gives you the manual. i would suggest that you leave the high horse at home. |
With apologies to all you listers who have better things to do with your time than endure this kind of spat, my fingers refuse to ignore a gauntlet tossed. Please delete now if uninterested...
Rick- (with additional apologies for fat-fingering your name- it was a totally juvenile error on my part)
"slick mags are junk. given half a chance they will kill you." (underline & large font omitted) High horse?
My experience is a mere 9 years in aviation and 1000 hours flying as a Private Pilot with no other aviation credential than a Repairman Certificate (and have built 2 airplanes- both quite successfully using Slick magnetos I might add, but you made an assumption) and have served as an EAA Technical Counselor on a number of other projects. I wasn't requesting hyperbole, but DATA. Are the bearings prone to loosen in their bores because of poor machining or material? How about bearing seal failure and why? Are dielectric tolerances insufficient to prevent arcing? Is the impulse coupling shaft prone to failure from pawl wear due to poor manufacture or metallurgy? Perhaps there is evidence suggesting these devices are routinely abused by "experienced" A&Ps resulting in the reputation you claim? If I knew the answers to these questions or even if they ARE valid questions, I wouldn't have even bothered to ask here. How about some specific, useful information instead of "slick mags are junk. given half a chance they will kill you." If you know your stuff, you can tell us WHY these devices are "junk" and HOW they "will kill" us.
This forum exists to serve an intelligent, serious aviation community. If you have specifics to offer based on your professional experience, please do so. Or more bluntly, put up or shut up.
Mark A. Phillips, Columbia, TN
RV-6A N51PW
do not archive
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
[quote][b]
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
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Howdy- I tried forwarding the original that had the link- I cc's to myself and it worked, but my email to you got returned by the deamon-
If you still need it, I'll try to attach to a new e-mail & send- but it's too late tonight & I gotta get up early!
Holler back at me tomorrow-
Mark
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
[quote][b]
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rickpegser(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
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mark
i would like to apoligise, for hammering you i had had a bad day with some customers i had trusted. i was doing an annual, and found that the vac pump, elt, and half the radio stack had been changed since the last time i saw the bird with no paper work ,this was a customer that i had an owner allowed work agreement in place with as long as i supervised. it seems that he forgot the word supervised. it is going to turn out to be a very expensive annual.
so you want specific info on why slicks are so bad, first off there are two thing currently wrong with slicks, the cams and the brushes.
brushes:
slick had a problem with the brushes not making the 500hr inspection after they changed to a new supplier. so they redsigned the brush again and found out that they were failing now in ten hours as opposed to 400 hrs. this resulted in sb3-08, which resulted in a maditory service bullentin for every engine manufacturer, and every airframe manufacturer, also most of the owners groups have agreed that this one is for real.
at this time there is no fix for the brush problem. slick also has an inside quality control issues that they are working on. i have yet to see an improvement in the field, but after talking to them they are retooling the line to ensure that this will stop. i hope so
the problem with the brushes is that it will take out a mag and is not detectable after the post crash fire. i have spoken with the engineer for the faa and his statement was" you have two mags so what is the problem"
cams:
the next problem was the cams, for some reason that slick won't say they either forgot to lube the cams to prevent wear or changed material in the cams themselves. this result in manditory sb2-08
next we have slick pricing policy that ensure that mags are returned to them for disposal. eleminated field reports of failure. all of the mag returned to slick due to time or failure slick has not reported those failures to the faa as thier policy is to destroy the mag rather then rebuild/inspect.
the next problem we see with the slicks is the arching at the mag to harness interface point. which eats both the harness and the distributor block and gear. due to the fact that they could not be bothered to design a gasket for this seam or any of the seams for a nonpressurized mag thier is a problem of contaimination around the high voltage leads.
Pricing:
then when they charge you 266.00$ for a coil that cost them less then 20.00$ to make and test.
design:
the rotor gear design for the slicks is of insufficent strength for abnormal engine loads. ie missing and backfire. and the gear driven design requires a much higher speed then what would be considered normal to the auto industry. The rotor gear and cam attachment design are insuffeciant for abnormal loads. which has resulted in rotor gear failure and cam failure. check the saibs to verfiy this.
What is missing in the slick design:
remove the rotor gear and place the brush in the distributor block so that we eliminate dynamic wear to the brush. it needs a steel multi lobe cam to get rid of the plastic piece of crap. seals we need seals we fly in rain. a cam lube wiper would be nice to.
rick
--- On Thu, 8/28/08, wskimike <wskimike(at)mchsi.com> wrote:
[quote] From: wskimike <wskimike(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Slick Mag Health Check-up
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 4:43 PM
The problem is if the person peforming your check
doesn't have a tester where he can turn the mag and
check the spark, he is not in compliance with the check and
he is betting your life on his work.
Mike
---
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bobbyhester(at)newwavecom
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
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For some reason I never the received the message with the link for the
Slick manual. Could someone send me that link.
----
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my website at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
Sam Buchanan wrote:
| Quote: |
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
> mark it is rick not nick the first post i told you what to look for.
>
> i have posted the manual and told you what we do for this inspection.
> if i have to put it in big letters i will.slick mags are junk. given
> half a chance they will kill you. ask any mag shop what they think
> about them. they are plastic pieces of crap and i would not have them
> on my aircraft.
Rick,
I appreciate you posting the Slick magneto manual, that is a very
useful resource.
However, you have repeatedly, and I mean repeatedly, stated your
disgust with Slick magnetos. In my opinion, your statement above
completed the process of destroying any credibility you have with me,
and I'm confident, with many other RVers. To state that Slick mags
will "kill you" shows a lack of grounding in reality.
I have no idea why you feel so strongly about this matter, but it is
obvious your strong feelings have clouded any objectivity you may have
about the mag issue. I had a long professional relationship with an
A&P whom I deeply respected, and we discussed the longevity of the
Slick mags on my *experimental* plane at the time we freshened them.
We were able to replace points, cam, condenser, and bearings for about
$250 per mag.
The opinion of the A&Ps I've discussed Slick mags with is that yes,
they do have a finite life span, and more than likely it is best to
replace them if they cause problems after several hundred hours of
service. But I have never heard a pro express the vitriol toward Slick
mags that you continue to spew on this list.
I respect your right to express your opinion, but personally, I put no
stock in what you have expressed.
Sam Buchanan
|
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
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In a message dated 8/29/2008 6:06:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, rickpegser(at)yahoo.com writes:
| Quote: | so you want specific info on why slicks are so bad, first off there are two thing currently wrong with slicks, the cams and the brushes.
|
Rick-
Understand the "bad day' thing- I've had more than I care to admit myself! I genuinely appreciate all of the other information provided in your latest post. Much MEAT to chew on...
After digging through all the data at hand, perhaps I'll have more questions needing good advice based on real-world experience.
Thanks!
Mark Phillips
Columbia, TN
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
[quote][b]
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From The PossumWorks... |
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
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Pretty strong words without any data. I have seen both Bendix and Slick
mags go over 2000 hours with no maintenance until I heard about the 500
hour suggested inspection/overhaul time. The difference after overhaul
is astounding. The degradation over time is so slow as to make it
unnoticeable. After the overhaul though, the Bendix mags make a hotter
spark. But the Slicks weigh less. You need to decide which is mor
important to you. I think the inspection/overhaul is best left to
someone that does a lot of them and has the tools.
Linn
RICHARD MILLER wrote:
| Quote: | mark
it is rick not nick
the first post i told you what to look for.
i have posted the manual and told you what we do for this inspection.
if i have to put it in big letters i will.*_slick mags are junk. given
half a chance they will kill you._**_ _*ask any mag shop what they
think about them. they are plastic pieces of crap and i would not have
them on my aircraft. yes i fly slicks only because some of my
customers have them. this is not conjecture, this is the truth. slick
got a place in the industry with the throwaway mag originally, and
stayed there when bendix had the ad problem. if you don't have the
money to throw them away, then plan on going thru them. but if you
have one problem you will have spent more then a new mag. by the way
if the mag impluse coupling comes apart they will not cover any
damages. since they did not do the inspection. and the price list was
slicks not mine or anybodyelse . the list i included was for all of
the items that slick requires to be replaced at overhaul with is not
to exceed the tbo of the engine. From field experience, if you get
more then 1000 hr from a slick you are looking for an off field
landing. this did not include the recent cam service bulletin or the
brush bulletin. they have had problems with the brush for the last
four years, so take your chances. it is your bird.
if you fly slick mags cost is about 2.50$ per flight hour, to replace
at 500. bendix with original cost adjustment is about the same. let me
guess that is probably how slick figure out thier priceing? book it
and budget it. and somebody needs to telll me why a coil costs 60% of
the cost of a new mag.
rick
--- On *Wed, 8/27/08, Fiveonepw(at)aol.com /<Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>/* wrote:
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Slick Mag Health Check-up
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, August 27, 2008, 9:12 PM
In a message dated 8/27/2008 2:15:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
rickpegser(at)yahoo.com writes:
with the replacment cost of 514/577$ repectively
Nick-
I'm not asking for horror stories or conjecture- I simply want to
know what I NEED to examine when I perform this next annual. The
idea that these are "throwaway" components after 500 hours of
faithful service with no attention whatsoever kind of speaks to
their reliability and in my case at least, debunks your
assertion. Offering someone's component pricelist is informative,
but I have a difficult time believing that EVERY component you
list absolutely needs replacement. This isn't about the FAA being
forced to issue an AD because some idiot deliberately pushed his
hardware way beyond its limits, but rather what I need to do to
ensure that my carefully maintained and respectfully
operated machine continues to function as designed.
Please bear in mind that these mags are installed on an
experimental aircraft- I do NOT operate under threat of the
Almighty AD, but rather the assurance that the aircraft performs
as expected by ME, the builder, and holder of the Repairman
Certificate for same...
So........
The original query stands: I've got these two little black chunks
of magneto I'd just LOVE to thoroughly investigate to make damn
sure they will continue to do what they do.
Specifically WHAT should I do?
Mark (thanks to all who have chimed in here!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's only a deal if it's where /you/ want to go. Find your travel
deal *here*
<http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047>.
*
*
*
*
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: Slick Mag Health Check-up |
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The data is out there, you just have to look a bit. Fact, Slick mags on
a Mooney TLS TIO540 rarely make 500 hours before needing service, and
generally aren't good for more than one overhaul. Granted this is a
pressurized mag used at up to FL250. Fact, Slick has a problem with
their brushes in distributor cap for the last two years, no resolution
to date. Several RV-10s have had dual mag failures on first flight or
within 20 hours. Fact, the majority of A&Ps prefer Bendix mags, must be
marketing or karma, eh? Other than your first two sentences, I agree
with the rest of your comments.
Kelly
Do not archive
linn Walters wrote:
| Quote: |
Pretty strong words without any data. I have seen both Bendix and
Slick mags go over 2000 hours with no maintenance until I heard about
the 500 hour suggested inspection/overhaul time. The difference after
overhaul is astounding. The degradation over time is so slow as to
make it unnoticeable. After the overhaul though, the Bendix mags make
a hotter spark. But the Slicks weigh less. You need to decide which
is mor important to you. I think the inspection/overhaul is best left
to someone that does a lot of them and has the tools.
Linn
=
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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