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447 and dual ignition

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capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

Hi all you Kolbers , I am doing some thinking on how I will Power the Firefly I am building ,I built a Firestar KXP and flew it 490 hrs without ever having the head off ! When I was building it in 1991 there was talk of a weight increase coming down so I said it will probably be legal by the time I finish so lets go with the 503 with dual ignition , it was fat and the law didn't change but nobody I ran into seamed to care. My question is , why has nobody come up with dual ignition for the 447? Is it because the heads are too small? the bore is only a few mm smaller . Does anyone have a reason it wont work ? Thank you  Chris

           [quote][b]

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

At 05:32 PM 8/31/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi all you Kolbers , I am doing some thinking on how I will Power 

the Firefly I am building ,I built a Firestar KXP and flew it 490 

hrs without ever having the head off ! When I was building it in 

1991 there was talk of a weight increase coming down so I said it 

will probably be legal by the time I finish so lets go with the 503 

with dual ignition , it was fat and the law didn't change but nobody 

I ran into seamed to care. My question is , why has nobody come up 

with dual ignition for the 447? Is it because the heads are too 

small? the bore is only a few mm smaller . Does anyone have a reason 

it wont work ? Thank you  Chris


	


They did on the "after market"  but the 477 isn't that much lighter than a 503.

Then you've got to decide about dual carbs, etc. Besides they 

don't  sell 447's anymore.

Now ......the original 377 (we had one 1985 - I think) was supposed 

to meet the Ultralight specs, but it really didn't either

unless you used spay paint on the wings & didn't add brakes & 

instruments - stuff like that.

It flew really nice though - like a feather and lasted 15 years! 

Belonged to Greg Elliot (An Original Possum)

But then you've got a five rib, bare bones, true Ultralight - maybe 

....if your Jack Hart.

They're all fat, except for Jack's of course.

Maybe you could find a 377 that has been stored in oil all these years?

_________________
Possum

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Now ......the original 377 (we had one 1985 - I think) was supposed 

to meet the Ultralight specs, but it really didn't either

unless you used spay paint on the wings & didn't add brakes & 

instruments - stuff like that.

It flew really nice though - like a feather and lasted 15 years! 

Belonged to Greg Elliot (An Original Possum)



Maybe you could find a 377 that has been stored in oil all these years?


	


Here's a picture of Greg's old 377 Firestar - back when Jimmy Buffet had hair.

He's the one "flapping his wings" - I'm taken the pictures.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8138441391455398603&q=source:012068733856177615188&hl=en

_________________
Possum

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

Possum , Are you joking with me " they dont make 447s any more" Kolb is selling " the only legal ultra light  with the447"that I bought .please say that isnt so . Chris



 

 ---

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

At 07:33 PM 8/31/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Possum , Are you joking with me " they dont make 447s any more" Kolb is selling " the only legal ultra light  with the447"that I bought .please say that isnt so . Chris



 	




 Sorry, 

 I read that the Rotax 447, it is no longer in production. 

 I'm sure the dealers are still selling them.

 They are still on the Rotax Website.

 So may that was also wrong.



     [quote][b]

_________________
Possum

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: Re: 447 and dual ignition

[quote="Possums"]At 07:33 PM 8/31/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Possum , Are you joking with me " they dont make 447s any more" Kolb is selling " the only legal ultra light  with the447"that I bought .please say that isnt so . Chris



 	




 Sorry, 

 I read that the Rotax 447, it is no longer in production. 

 I'm sure the dealers are still selling them.

 They are still on the Rotax Website.

 So may that was also wrong.



      	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




Uh oh - where did you read that?



I suppose a call to a dealer is in order to get the scoop. Bad news if so....



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

 	  Quote: 	
		  

  Sorry, 

  I read that the Rotax 447, it is no longer in production. 

  I'm sure the dealers are still selling them.

  They are still on the Rotax Website.

  So may that was also wrong.



      

 > [b]



 

 Uh oh - where did you read that?



 I suppose a call to a dealer is in order to get the scoop. Bad news if so....



 LS



 --------

 LS

 Titan II SS 	


 One of the "Max Newsletters" so it probably isn't true.

 Might want to ask your dealer though.



 "Even though 13MAX is now N83HL, I am still 100% an ultralighter.

 The conversion was done for several reasons, such as

 exceeding 103 weight with all the various mostly safety goodies

 that were installed. The 447, which may go out of production

 this year, exceeds the 30 hp limit of AC 103-7."    [quote][b]

_________________
Possum

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Re: 447 and dual ignition

I was also told that the 447 was out of production, although I never checked the information...   A call to a rotax dealer could confirm this real quick.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

Still 3 or 4 flavors from which to choose...some lighter...with 

electric start...likely cheaper too   Right Jack?  ...Herb

At 10:48 AM 9/1/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I was also told that the 447 was out of production, although I never 

checked the information...   A call to a rotax dealer could confirm 

this real quick.



Mike



--------

&quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as 

you could have !!!



Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1967#201967

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: 447 and dual ignition

 	  Possums wrote: 	
		  

(Snipped the other stuff)

One of the "Max Newsletters" so it probably isn't true. 

Might want to ask your dealer though. 



 "Even though 13MAX is now N83HL, I am still 100% an ultralighter.

 The conversion was done for several reasons, such as

 exceeding 103 weight with all the various mostly safety goodies

 that were installed. The 447, which may go out of production

 this year, exceeds the 30 hp limit of AC 103-7."  	


Don't remember ever seeing a reference to horse power in any part of 103.... Maybe the writer was confused and whatever "vehicle" he was working with couldn't go over 30 HP without busting the 55 Kts/63 MPH speed restriction.   If this the case, the restriction was the speed NOT the HP. 



Laboring on this day to give my $.02.  (Too windy on the FL Gulf Coast to fly.)

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

George , You took the words right out of my mouth " I dont remember the mention of HP in part 103"And Kolb has jumped through all the hoops design wise to make the firefly fit into Pt 103 and as far as  can make out one can still buy the 447 from dealers all over the world. 

   I appreciate all you gents concern but still no one has answered my "dual ignition " question?Has anyone come up with a dual ignition  for a 447 ? and if not why? Thanks   Chris 



 

 ---

gaman(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

Chris,

 read an article somewhere that the reason for single ignition/sparkplug on 447 was a cooling problem at the head.They could not spare the fin area there.Jet pilot can correct me if I recollected wrong.

---

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Chris,

  read an article somewhere that the reason for single ignition/sparkplug on 447 was a cooling problem at the head.They could not spare the fin area there.Jet pilot can correct me if I recollected wrong.


	


http://tinyurl.com/6l2yww



Jim Baker

580.788.2779

Elmore City, OK

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

Jim ,Thank you for your post. Phill Lockwood is a good , knowledable man to answer my question and he does it well ,I have never delt with a 477. I had a503 on my KXP and I was building a europa  MG with a 912, but I have never even looked at a 447 up close and being that there is very little difference in the bore of a 447 and the 503 something like 8 mm I didnt see why no after market shop didnt come up with dual ignition. They ,Rotax or somebody else already did and it didnt work. Thanks again for the answer.  Chris

           [quote][b]

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

At 03:33 PM 9/1/2008, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  George , You took the words right out of my mouth " I dont remember the mention of HP in part 103"And Kolb has jumped through all the hoops design wise to make the firefly fit into Pt 103 and as far as  can make out one can still buy the 447 from dealers all over the world.



    I appreciate all you gents concern but still no one has answered my "dual ignition " question?Has anyone come up with a dual ignition  for a 447 ? and if not why? Thanks   Chris



 	


 Here's an old post from another list.

 -----------------------------------------

 Subject: Re: dual ignition retrofit kit for 447?

 From: Rick Pitcher

 Date: Thu Mar 29 23:43:45 2001 



 

 Peter Allen wrote: 

 > 

 > ahh... a search on the net has provided this: 

 > 

 > "... I think Steve Beatty at Airscrew Performance (623)931-6667 will do 

 the 

 > conversion for $275."

 -------------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

_________________
Possum

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

Possum, Thanks Ill look into that, perhaps I could subtract the weight as "safety equipment" Chris  



 

 ---

customersupport(at)tnkolb
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

cris,  447 is still in production,  the price has gone done at least a bit.

thanks donnie.

---

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

Donnie ,Thanks for that good news! Glad you are paying attention to this crazy bunch ,that includes me.   Chris 



 

 ---

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: 447 and dual ignition

Which raises the question, did anybody ever come up with dual ignition for 

the Cuyuna?



-Dana

--

  When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced...

Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice.

-- Cherokee saying

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