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HShack(at)AOL.COM
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 Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump |
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The following is offered not as advice but merely reflects my experience.
After not flying my FS II for about 6 weeks, 3 times my engine [503 dcdi] dropped rpms & appeared to go to idle. Each time I landed OK. Changed pulse pump & pulse line - problem solved.
This got me to thinking that an electric pump as a backup would be a good idea. After reading the archives, most people who use them say they fill their float bowls & turn them on when taking off & landing.
I will fill my float bowls &, if needed, turn it on if the pulse pump fails. I will NOT turn it on when taking off or landing for this reason- if there is a crash [most likely during takeoff or landing] the fuel pump MAY continue to pump fuel, causing a small fire to be a big one.
This exact thing happened at our field about 3 years ago. The pilot was burned over 90% w/ 3rd degree burns; They pulled the plug after 10 days in hospital.
Also, there is a question on the Sport Pilot test that indicates the backup fuel pump not be used for TO & landing [I assume for the same reason].
I welcome other thoughts on this matter.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 9/8/2008 10:29:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net writes:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
At 08:29 PM 9/8/08 -0400, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: <ulace(at)woh.rr.com>
Hi Jack & List,
It was nice meeting you at Nulltown. Wish you could have stayed longer.
Your well detailed and documented experiments are greatly appreciated in
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lieu of the normal subjective results or pure hear-say often presented on
the net. So, in the spirit of accuracy, I have to make a small correction to
your report: I'm hangared at Dahio (I44) not Green Acres. Been there since
1985. Feel free to drop in sometime!
| Quote: |
Dick Graham
Firestar 447
1,600 Kolb Hrs.
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Dick,
My apologies. I had you pinned on a map and I read the listing incorrectly.
I would have liked to stay longer, but my wife who drove down needed to get
home. She is one of the working retired folks, and she had a rough week
traveling etc. If she had not suggested that I fly down, I would not have
come. She needed the rest. Also, we built a new home here, and I am still
smoothing out and planting grass seed. Planted a bunch and it has not seen
rain yet. So I water for two days, and then I have a day off. Saturday was
not a day off.
It is great to get out to be with others who enjoy building and flying small
planes. There are two hangars here at I22 contain very small aircraft, but
I never see them fly. I belong to an EAA Chapter down at Hagerstown, but we
only meet once a month, and there are not very many of us.
I am converting the vacuum gage I had in my lap to a manometer, and I have
designed up a mounting for it so it can be attached to the upper left of the
windshield bow. Once it is mounted, and a few more test flights completed
to check system performance, I want to start making some little cross
countries so that I establish fuel flow rates for a given EGT and rpm. So
there is a chance I will come your way.
It was nice to meet and talk with you.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN - es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; - List Contribution Web Site ; =========================
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Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
[quote][b]
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HShack(at)aol.com
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rowedenny
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump |
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[quote] ---
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Steven Green
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump |
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[quote]
I will fill my float bowls &, if needed, turn it on if the pulse pump fails. I will NOT turn it on when taking off or landing for this reason- if there is a crash [most likely during takeoff or landing] the fuel pump MAY continue to pump fuel, causing a small fire to be a big one.
Howard,
I agree with you on the operation of the electric pump. I installed a fuel pressure sensor, connected it to the EIS, and programmed it to alarm below 3 psi.
I considered installing an inertia switch in series with the electric pump but have decided not to since I do not run it continously. If an electric pump was my primary pump that had to run continously, I would install the inertia switch for the reason you stated.
Steven Green
M3 912S
[b]
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jb92563
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 314
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump |
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Hmmmm....good point.
I however have a certified aircraft that specifies the pump be on for takeoff since that is the most likely time a fuel supply failure will cause dire results....logic being that no failure = no fire etc.
On another point I also have a brand new Facet pump and found it failed to pump properly after 15 mins of proper use.
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Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider
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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump |
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Howard,
The first part of your post is very good, there are many reasons to have a backup fuel pump, and your experience is just another example of many reasons as to how having backup electric fuel pump can prevent an engine failure.
I strongly disagree with the second part of your post, an electric fuel pump should always be on for takeoff and landing. Takeoff is where the fuel demand is the highest, and when you are most likely to need an electric pump. The safest thing you can do is to keep your engine running on takeoff, and prevent a crash period, you will not have time to turn on your fuel pump or restart if your engine quits soon on takeoff. You increase the chances of a crash and the fire you are so worried about by not running a backup fuel pump on takeoff. You obviously saw the results of one accident where a freak set of circumstances made it much worse, but to base your actions on ONE ACCIDENT is bad judgment. Just because something happens ONCE does not make it PROBABLE. I flipped a coin once, and it landed on the edge, does that mean than in a coin toss I am always going to guess the coin will land on the edge ??? No, I will chose heads or tails... I will chose something that is likely, not something that has a one in a million chance just because I have seen it before.
Your chances of a crash on takeoff and a post crash fire are increased by NOT running the fuel pump. It is important to look at what the biggest risks are rather than obsessing over what happened in one freak accident.
In certified aircraft, the procedure is to have electric backup pumps running for takeoff and landing. The best solution to avoid a fire is to avoid a crash on takeoff, the best way to avoid a crash is to keep your engine running on takeoff.
Mike
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