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falcon43

Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 23

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Lights

Anyone have used auto LD lights for direction and strobes for homebuilt 

or any info an cheaper set than certified systems which are several 

hundred $ up. Thanks

Harry Cieslar Avid Magnum Builder, Ontario, Canada

Mnflyer

Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 78

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Lights

Hi Harry, not sure what you mean by LD lights, but nav lights can sometimes be gotten on e bay at a more reasonable price, also the Cessna flashing beacon assemblies sell quite reasonable, for a landing light I use a quartz driving/fog light on mine.

I also just modified an old pair of grimes nav lights to accept LED bulbs and will be installing them later nice thing about LED's is they draw very little electrical current so its nice and easy on the charging system.

_________________
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III

wingsdown(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Lights

Go to code 3 and others. You will find all sorts of power units and

strobes, way cheaper. 



Rick



--

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Lights

Harry means LED lights, and yes the LED lights made for airplanes are way more expensive than they need to be.  I will also be looking for a better cheaper source for the LED lights for my Kitfox.   They dont have to be aircraft LED's, an LED is an LED and will last for 50,000 hours or more while consuming only 10 % of the power of a traditional light...   As long as I can mount the LED's to the airplane in a nice way I will be happy.

Rick,



What is Code 3 ???



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Lights

Harry,



Kitplanes in the Aeroelectrics column just finished a series on LED nav 

lights.  It is quite comprensive including a schematic for a regulated power 

supply.  I am planning on building up a set from his plans.  I ordered the 

parts and they come to about $50 for a set of three - red, white, green.



The LEDs themselves are LedEngin Hi-Power LE modules and should be mounted 

with a heat sink as they get warm..  Two modules are used at each point for 

FAA mandated coverage.



For the strobes, I am using a strob module with power supply that was 

mentioned on the list:

 http://www.creativair.com/genii-white-strobe-light-p-111.html



I also plan on mounting the nav lights internally in the wing tips.  The 

strobes?  I won't know until they come so I can see what they look like.



Lowell

There are definitely options out there.

---

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: Lights

Rick C Can you keep us informed on LED suppliers as you find them? As you stayted  C aircraft LED's are rediculeously expensive.

 Do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford CIL



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Lights

 From: orcabonita(at)hotmail.com

 Date: Tue C 9 Sep 2008 11:29:08 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>

 

 Harry means LED lights C and yes the LED lights made for airplanes are way more expensive than they need to be. I will also be looking for a better cheaper source for the LED lights for my Kitfox. They dont have to be aircraft LED's C an LED is an LED and will last for 50 C000 hours or more while consuming only 10 % of the power of a traditional light... As long as I can mount the LED's to the airplane in a nice way I will be happy.

 

 

 Rick C

 

 What is Code 3 ???

 

 Mike

 

 --------

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

 

 Kolb MK-III Xtra C 912-S

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=203425#203425

 

 

 

 

 > _====================

 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: Lights

You may also try a simple voltage divider circuit....  Most NOT ALL LEDs will light on around 2V and a couple of milliamps of current.  Convenient size red and green LEDs can be salvaged from old Christmas lamps... look for an old store display that’s being turfed out.  

   

[img]cid:image003.jpg(at)01C912BD.E1FB9510[/img]This diagram should work for 12V... you may want to play with the values of the resistors a bit.  The calculations I made using the 400/80 combination was just for one LED.  Two LEDs will probably be around a 200/40 combination.   ¼ W resistors should suffice.  You can even add a white LED for the tail.  Current draw should be horrendous....  less than 0.03 Amp per light. Continuous burn (not switched) it will flatten your battery in about three years.  (1- LED)  

   

The two resistors in the circuit produce what is known as a voltage divider circuit and should produce close to 2V for the LEDs.  

   

If that’s too complicated you can always run the LEDs directly off a replaceable penlight battery without the resistor circuit.  Just wire the LEDs in parallel.  A great place to use all those old half used camera batteries.  

   

One thing not mentioned about the coloured LEDs is, they only emit a single wavelength of light so if you combine the light of a red, green and blue LEDs you can make a nice cockpit flashlight that will not cause your pupils to close down as regular flashlights do.  

   

   

[img]cid:image005.jpg(at)01C912BD.E1FB9510[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

   

   

   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Lights

Rick,



 "A LED is a LED" is not entirely true unless you are not too interested in 

high light output.  High intensity LEDS are a pretty new and exciting 

development.  There are LED products on the market now that weren't 

available a year ago.  Keep in mind that they are amperage sensitive so 

output will vary with voltage shifts as we put the 12 or 14+  volts through 

them depending on battery condition or charge voltage - hence the 

requirement for a regulated power supply.    It's not like buying a couple 

of fifty cent LEDs and putting a resister in the circuit to keep from 

flrying them, unless all you need are low light output panel indicators. 

The Lancair guy, I helped in the build, is in the forefront of LED powered 

fluorescent tube replacement technology here.  It won't be long before all 

interior lighting is LED based and the incandescent bulbs, fluorescent tubes 

and twisted bulbs will be in museum displays for our grandkids to look at 

and laugh.  These units won't be full of the LEDs available at Radio Shack. 

Again, go to Kitplanes and read the three articles on this subject ending 

with the October issue.  The Modules recommended in this article are 

available from Mouser for $9 to $11 a pop depending on color.  It is 

interesting that the current requirement varies with color and the power 

supplies are slightly different to provide for that.



Also keep in mind that these are collision avoidance items and light output 

is an important consideration.



Lowell



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: Lights

Spot on Lowell!  



That's why I recommended getting the LEDs from a scrapped Christmas

displays.  LEDs do give off different colours depending on the doping of the

semiconductor and as you well pointed out because of the different doping

the current draw will vary.  White and blue are actually sort of fluorescent

lights in their own right as the colour is given off by the fluorescing of

UV light given off by the junction.  That makes those LEDs slightly more

expensive.  I have found by using white LEDs year round (on my deck) that

after a year or so the white ones degrade and eventually fade out completely

no doubt because of UV light from the sun.  I also have red and green LEDs

in my lamp posts at the end of the driveway ( red right return same as

navigation ) they have been lit 24/7 except for power outages for three

years now.  I decided to check them the other day and they are the same as

new.  Yes they are red and green strings (30) of Christmas indoor/outdoor

lights.



The Christmas lights are usually wired in strings of 30 wired in series so

the voltage drop across each LED is 110/30 = 3.6V...  The really beautiful

thing about them is they give off almost no heat so that puts their

efficiency way up through the roof.  The other nice thing is they are turned

off for more than 50% of the time.  As diodes they only allow forward

current to flow when the threshold voltage is achieved, that only occurs for

less than 50% of the AC cycle.



You make very valid points on the high output LEDs but most of the red and

green units are not of that type...  they are however just as bright as most

of the incandescent nav lights.  High power lights are generally the lighter

colours, white and blue are examples but as you mentioned new ones are being

designed and built every day.  



I noticed the other day that even the traffic lights that are now being

swapped to LED are much brighter when you are facing them but off to the

side it is hard to tell if the light is on or not in open shade.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

rick(at)5mike3.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: Lights

This may have been mentioned before, or may not even apply...



About 2 years ago I worked with a project that required high intensity 

lighting, for this application we used a philips device called 'luxeon 

emitters'.

If anyone is interested here is the website: 

http://www.lumileds.com/products/line.cfm?lineId=18



Rick, Kitfox IV / 912ul / 50%

do not archive

---

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Lights

Noel C Wow! after sorting thru reams of gas and alcohol minusha C I get an excellent definition of LED differences. Thanks Noel. Keep up the good work. I will look at the LED Christmas lights this year.

 Do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL



[quote] From: noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: Lights

 Date: Tue C 9 Sep 2008 23:22:58 -0230

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>

 

 Spot on Lowell! 

 

 That's why I recommended getting the LEDs from a scrapped Christmas

 displays. LEDs do give off different colours depending on the doping of the

 semiconductor and as you well pointed out because of the different doping

 the current draw will vary. White and blue are actually sort of fluorescent

 lights in their own right as the colour is given off by the fluorescing of

 UV light given off by the junction. That makes those LEDs slightly more

 expensive. I have found by using white LEDs year round (on my deck) that

 after a year or so the white ones degrade and eventually fade out completely

 no doubt because of UV light from the sun. I also have red and green LEDs

 in my lamp posts at the end of the driveway ( red right return same as

 navigation ) they have been lit 24/7 except for power outages for three

 years now. I decided to check them the other day and they are the same as

 new. Yes they are red and green strings (30) of Christmas indoor/outdoor

 lights.

 

 The Christmas lights are usually wired in strings of 30 wired in series so

 the voltage drop across each LED is 110/30 = 3.6V... The really beautiful

 thing about them is they give off almost no heat so that puts their

 efficiency way up through the roof. The other nice thing is they are turned

 off for more than 50% of the time. As diodes they only allow forward

 current to flow when the threshold voltage is achieved C that only occurs for

 less than 50% of the AC cycle.

 

 You make very valid points on the high output LEDs but most of the red and

 green units are not of that type... they are however just as bright as most

 of the incandescent nav lights. High power lights are generally the lighter

 colours C white and blue are examples but as you mentioned new ones are being

 designed and built every day. 

 

 I noticed the other day that even the traffic lights that are now being

 swapped to LED are much brighter when you are facing them but off to the

 side it is hard to tell if the light is on or not in open shade.

 

 Noel

 

 --

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: Lights

Lowell C Thanks for the info. I'm tired of meaningless alcohol gas trivia and I need to learn about LED's.

 Do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL



[quote] From: lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Lights

 Date: Tue C 9 Sep 2008 16:44:28 -0700

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

 

 Rick C

 

 "A LED is a LED" is not entirely true unless you are not too interested in 

 high light output. High intensity LEDS are a pretty new and exciting 

 development. There are LED products on the market now that weren't 

 available a year ago. Keep in mind that they are amperage sensitive so 

 output will vary with voltage shifts as we put the 12 or 14+ volts through 

 them depending on battery condition or charge voltage - hence the 

 requirement for a regulated power supply. It's not like buying a couple 

 of fifty cent LEDs and putting a resister in the circuit to keep from 

 flrying them C unless all you need are low light output panel indicators. 

 The Lancair guy C I helped in the build C is in the forefront of LED powered 

 fluorescent tube replacement technology here. It won't be long before all 

 interior lighting is LED based and the incandescent bulbs C fluorescent tubes 

 and twisted bulbs will be in museum displays for our grandkids to look at 

 and laugh. These units won't be full of the LEDs available at Radio Shack. 

 Again C go to Kitplanes and read the three articles on this subject ending 

 with the October issue. The Modules recommended in this article are 

 available from Mouser for $9 to $11 a pop depending on color. It is 

 interesting that the current requirement varies with color and the power 

 supplies are slightly different to provide for that.

 

 Also keep in mind that these are collision avoidance items and light output 

 is an important consideration.

 

 Lowell

 

 ---

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Lights

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]

 I also have red and green LEDs

 in my lamp posts at the end of the driveway ( red right return same as

 navigation )


	


Ah, but then you use the IALA system B, my friend! If I ever drive to your home, I would be confused, accustomed to the European system A that has red on red and green on green when sailing TOWARD a harbour! 



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 .... flying as PAX

Do not archive

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: Lights

Just sold my Whelen wingtip strobes on Ebay for almost $400. That really reduced the price of my Aveoflash strobe/running light led units that I installed on my aircraft and bought from Spruce ($600 the pair). These self contained units fastened right to the wingtips with a minimum of effort and I am in business.All sealed in a lump of plastic with no power pack.It couldn't be more simple! Power use is 750 ma for the two. They are bright ! (even with the leads attached to a simple 9 volt battery) One of my better purchases(next to Lowells trim system--but not that good!)

                                           Dick Maddux

                                           Fox 4-1200

                                           Pensacola,fl 



Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: Lights

Spec sheets are most interesting.  The LEDs seem to have pretty good voltage

and current flexibility but it is worth noting that they should not be run

in reversed polarity.  The junctions also get a lot warmer (well over 100C)

than I would have expected.  Light output is quite high and the spectrum

width is still quite narrow.  I think these diodes  would make good NAV

lights especially if used in multiples of the star or flood configuration.



Thanks   This has been most interesting.



Noel  



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: Lights

Gee Michel... You won't know if you're coming or going 



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Lights

Nice looking units !  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631(at)aol.com

 Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:48 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Lights  

Just sold my Whelen wingtip strobes on Ebay for almost $400. That really reduced the price of my Aveoflash strobe/running light led units that I installed on my aircraft and bought from Spruce ($600 the pair). These self contained units fastened right to the wingtips with a minimum of effort and I am in business.All sealed in a lump of plastic with no power pack.It couldn't be more simple! Power use is 750 ma for the two. They are bright ! (even with the leads attached to a simple 9 volt battery) One of my better purchases(next to Lowells trim system--but not that good!)  

                                          Dick Maddux  

                                          Fox 4-1200  

                                          Pensacola,fl   

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.  

       [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Lights

There are 12 volt, 5mm LED's available on eBay.  THe colors red and green are available.  One of our local flyers recently installed an HKS 700 on his Thundergull and with everything turned on, he was overtaxed on amperage.  He ordered some of the 12 volt LED's and with a little backyard (Experimental) engineering replaced the incandescent bulbs in in wingtips with several of the LED's.  So far...so good.  They look good at night.  I think he spent around $20. 



Travis

_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

kitfox(at)itsys3.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Lights

I, too, went the LED route when I figured out how many amps the Whelen 

nav lights stole from the anemic 22 amps available on the Rotax 912S.  I 

built my own LED 'bulbs' to replace the incandescents bulbs supplied 

with the Whelen.  One of my criteria was not to modify the Whelen 

fixture so that it could revert to its original configuration at any 

time.  The results are shown (about halfway down) my web page at 

http://www.itsys3.com/kitfox/discover.shtml.



Bill Hammond

Parker, CO

Series 6, 912ULS, 550 flight hours

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3830#203830

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: Lights

Nice web site, Bill.  Thanks for sharing it.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert

do not archive

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