Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

fuel line?
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: fuel line?

At 07:55 PM 9/13/2008, John Hauck wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 Still looking for valid reasons to look at the little bubbles in the clear plastic line.    No one has come up with a good reason yet... 	


 I don't want to look at the little bubbles... I want to look and verify that there AREN'T any little bubbles!



 Almost lost my US on its first flight, when a fuel line blockage cause either air to be sucked in or cavitation, I don't know... but it was a steady stream of bubbles that I saw after getting it back down.  The blockage passed enough fuel for anything less than full throttle, and the carb bowl held just enough to get airborne up to around 100' where things got exciting... now part of my preflight is to look for bubbles during a full power runup.



 That's a good enough reason for me.



 -Dana

 

 --

  Grow your own dope! Plant a politician!    [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: fuel line?

Dana:

  

 What kind of bubbles are you seeing? air or fuel  vapor?

  

 I'm no engineer or chemist, but if I shake a  container of gasoline, it produces a lot of fuel vapor.  Enough to expand a  5 gal plastic jug or blow the lid off a Folgers plastic coffee container.   I bet a fuel line being moved and vibrated by a healthy two stroke would also  produce bubbles that looked just like air bubbles.

  

 Those bubbles used to drive me crazy, back in the  early days.  I chased them every way I could, and still could not  completely eliminate them.

  

 Black line, can't see'em.  Out of sight, out  of mind.  

  

 Takes a hell of a leak to let air enter a fuel  line, especially one that is under vacuum and on a push on hose barb.   Unless the plastic line is stretched and hardened, it shouldn't leak, even  without a clamp.  Neoprene is the same way.  I have a heck of a time  getting the fuel line off the hose barb on the fuel filter to check  it.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  

   now part of my preflight is to look for bubbles during a full  power runup.



That's a good enough reason for me.



-Dana

 

   [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: fuel line?

I have the black stuff.  Could be NAPA, Pep Boys, Tractor Supply?  dunno but Im not too concerned.I run only low pressure.  I noticed a little black dusty (colloidal?) residue initially but that has subsided.

The hose is stiffer than new (at least something is getting stiffer with age) but  since part of it is in the

windstream I consider that  a plus.  When it gets about 5-6 years years old I'll replace it.

  IMO the 2 stroke world has totally different circumstances to deal with than do us 4 strokers.

BB

On 13, Sep 2008, at 8:30 PM, John Hauck wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Dana:

 

What kind of bubbles are you seeing? air or fuel vapor?

 

I'm no engineer or chemist, but if I shake a container of gasoline, it produces a lot of fuel vapor.  Enough to expand a 5 gal plastic jug or blow the lid off a Folgers plastic coffee container.  I bet a fuel line being moved and vibrated by a healthy two stroke would also produce bubbles that looked just like air bubbles.

 

Those bubbles used to drive me crazy, back in the early days.  I chased them every way I could, and still could not completely eliminate them.

 

Black line, can't see'em.  Out of sight, out of mind.  

 

Takes a hell of a leak to let air enter a fuel line, especially one that is under vacuum and on a push on hose barb.  Unless the plastic line is stretched and hardened, it shouldn't leak, even without a clamp.  Neoprene is the same way.  I have a heck of a time getting the fuel line off the hose barb on the fuel filter to check it.

 

john h

mkIII

 

 

 

  now part of my preflight is to look for bubbles during a full power runup.



That's a good enough reason for me.



-Dana

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: fuel line?

At 08:30 PM 9/13/2008, John Hauck wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Dana:

  

 What kind of bubbles are you seeing? air or fuel vapor?

  

 ...Takes a hell of a leak to let air enter a fuel line, especially one that is under vacuum and on a push on hose barb... 	


 I'm not seeing _any_ bubbles, any more.  At the time, I assumed they were air bubbles, but I really don't know.  The brand new primer bulb was bad, and at full throttle there was a steady stream of bubbles downstream of the fuel filter (which was downstream of the primer).  Drove me crazy for awhile, I was chasing what I thought were leaks, replacing hose clamps, the filter, etc., until I finally put the old bulb back in and the problem went away.



 If I ever have such a problem again, I want to SEE it during runup, not have to wait until I'm airborne.



 -Dana

 

 --

  If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!    [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: fuel line?

Dana:

  

 Would be interesting to know how many UL forced  landings were caused by primer bulbs.

  

 1987, I was making my first long cross country  flight from my airstrip in Alabama to Miami, FL, in my Firestar.  I spent  the weekend with the Florida Flying Gators at their airstrip in Central  Florida.  While there, and during some enjoyable flying, I was experiencing  some intermittent power losses.  Not enough to kill the engine, but not  developing full power.  It was no big cause for alarm.  We were always  having some sort of problem with engines back in those days.

  

 I departed first thing Monday morning.  A  short time later I was over Sebring, Florida.  Power was starting to  bleed off my mighty 447.  If I went full throttle, it would try to die on  me.  I ended up turning about 4000 rpm, just enough to keep me aloft.   Closest forced landing area was the Sebring High School football field.  I  had to do something.  Did not want to lose the engine over down town  Sebring.  Made a decision and landed on the foot ball field.  No  brakes were installed.  Started unloading stuff to get to the fuel  system.  The bell rang and here comes a whole flock of HS students to see  what the funny little airplane was doing on their foot ball field.  Found  my problem.  A tiny ball of silicone seal had fouled the intake valve on  the primer bulb.  Was only letting enough fuel through to keep  the engine running at low power, but that was all.  The reason the silicone  seal ended up in the fuel system was lack of education working with silicone  seal.  This was before most of us learned that silicone seal and gasoline  did not get along with each other.  I had used a dab to seal the vent in  the Ken Brock seat tank to keep the cap from leaking should I get  inverted.  I had installed a seperate fuel tank vent line that exited out  the bottom of the fuselage.  The reason I had done this was an engine  failure that resulted in my brand new Firestar ending up on its back in the  middle of a cotton field.  While I was trying to get out to the cockpit,  gasoline was leaking out of the cap and down my neck into my helmet.  I was  very near a panic situation.  That little piece of silicone seal is what  put me down.

  

 We also went through a lot of problems with paper  element fuel filters.  A drop of water would cause the element to expand  and cut off the fuel flow.  Took a lot of engine failures from Woodville,  FL, to Titus, AL, to figure that one out.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		        The brand new primer bulb was bad,    

-Dana



 

	
   [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: fuel line?

At 09:33 PM 9/13/2008, John Hauck wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 Would be interesting to know how many UL forced landings were caused by primer bulbs.

  ...A tiny ball of silicone seal had fouled the intake valve on the primer bulb.... 	


 Probably quite a few.  Although, of course, yours wasn't actually caused by the primer.



 I've since removed the primer bulb and replaced it with a plunger primer.  Still have the bulbs on my PPG's, though, with no problems.



  	  Quote: 	
		  We also went through a lot of problems with paper element fuel filters.  A drop of water would cause the element to expand and cut off the fuel flow... 	


 I have a screen filter on my US, don't think I'd want a paper filter there... OTOH, again, I used them on my PPG's for years with no problems.



 Of course an engine out in a PPG is usually much less of an issue than in a Kolb!



 -Dana

 

 --

  Censorship: The reaction of the ignorant to freedom.    [quote][b]

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:35 am Post subject: Re: fuel line?

From Dave Bidelow:

Quote:

Tygothane C210 ESTER is formulated for all type of fuel 

Superthane ESTER is supposed to be a near equivalent. 



Jack, do you have a source for these two types of fuel line? 



Thanks.



Dave,

Both of the Tygon brand lines mentioned in this thread as well as St. Gobain's recommended F4040A Tygon are available from McMaster-Carr at www.mcmaster.com .



They are my preferred supplier because of their excellent customer service, fast shipping and good prices.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Beeman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Central MD Maryland

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: fuel line?

Hi Tom and gang



\ the 4040 is better than most other tubing,   and is a great choice.

  Just so people dont go and use some of the bad blue stuff that was out 

there.  it looked good, felt good, worked good for about 90 and then 

cracked, rotted and gelled and fell apart.  if it doesnt say tygon 4040 

or Tygothane c210 or Superthane I will no longer use it. although i do 

have some NOS 1/8 primer line  that was not labeled on the tubing. but 

says C210 a on the box of 100 ft.



My data was From both companys  

http://www.tygon.com/Data/Element/Node/ProductLine/product_line_edit.asp?ele_ch_id=L0000000000000001506

I have called Saint-Gobain and New age,  and  many of the technicians  

recommendation is the Ester base polyurethane. because of the extra 

durability.

although  the 4040 A    is good the recommendation, and is highly used 

for fuel,  it is softer.

 the c210 is the extra toughness and and durability,   again this is 

from the manufactures,  I have also read misleading or incomplete 

descriptions on other websites that sell the stuff. actually 

contradictions,  that is why I have called both mfgs.

  there is always errors even in opinions.



ps> mcmaster carr says not use c210 in water it will crack. ( where did 

this come from?) Surely not StGobain.

at this point we all have to do research.!

surely we are not running or keeping water in our tanks,  we are not 

keeping   water  around our tubing, and  getting it wet in the rain is 

not going to deteriorate the line.     It may just mean dont use it on a 

boat and keeping it submerged in the Hull. with fuel inside it? 

I have had Tygothane on my planes for 6+ years  (it is probably time to 

change)  but has little signs of any change(aging etc) whatsoever.



Jackofmosttrades



 	  Quote: 	
		  Dave,

Both of the Tygon brand lines mentioned in this thread as well as St. Gobain's recommended F4040A Tygon are available from McMaster-Carr at www.mcmaster.com .



They are my preferred supplier because of their excellent customer service, fast shipping and good prices.



--------

Thom Riddle

CFI-SP

Power Plant Mechanic

N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL

N197BG FS1/447

--------------------

gaman(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: fuel line?

Have had the pump primer o-ring seal fail on a FS.No leaks of fuel but a solid string of bubbles entering the fuel line from the primer thru the T fitting.Was part of the pre flight after that .Pull start then check lines for bubbles.

---

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: fuel line?

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  

I don't want to look at the little bubbles... I want to look and verify that there AREN'T any little bubbles!



	




If your fuel system were properly designed, you would not have the need to look for little bubbles in the fuel line.   There are thousands upon thousands of general aviation airplanes, both low wing, and high wing, and NONE of them had a place to look for bubbles in the fuel line.   With a pressure fed fuel system, there are no problems with pinhole leaks resulting in engine failures.  There is also no need for primer bulbs that fail, causing air, or blockages in the fuel line.   A 40 dollar Facet pump solves all these problems and more.  If you start to get vapor lock in flight, the ability to see those gas bubbles are forming in the fuel line is not going to make your engine run.



I have to agree with you on one thing, if you are making the mistake of using a pump to suck fuel up from a tank, then you probably have a need to look for bubbles in the fuel line.   I would much rather have a properly designed fuel system that is reliable rather than have such a poorly designed, substandard fuel system that I had to constantly inspect the lines and watch for bubbles.



As far as the Rotax 912-S, Rotax has now changed the engine to include aviation fuel line covered by firesleeve from the fuel pump to the carburetors as standard equipment.  You can not inspect this fuel line before each flight, you cant even see see the fuel line under the firesleeve, but with quality materials there is no need to.  Someone at Rotax that has a lot more experience and knowlege than most here knew that it was worth the extra money to keep people from using substandard clear fuel line on the engine itself.  



I made the same mistake as many guys here and used the clear fuel line and two fuel pumps to suck fuel up from the tanks to the engine in my Kolb.  When I saw all the bubbles forming in the line after the filter, it became obvious to me that this was hazardous and could cause an engine failure one day.  The difference between me and many here is that I researched fuel system design, materials, and corrected my mistakes.  Many here seem unable to admit to themselves that what they have been doing is wrong.   



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: fuel line?

Here are some pictures of my first fuel system.  The first picture shows lots of bubbles that form in the gasoline after the fuel filter due to fuel being pulled through it rather than pushed.  There was no leak, changing the fuel filter did not reduce the amount of bubbles flowing out of the filter.  At what point are there enough bubbles that the engine would quit ???  I do not know... I do know that the amount of bubbles forming in the gas could greatly increase with altitude and temperature.



The second picture shows more of my first fuel system, with the fuel line and the Facet pump sucking the fuel up on top of the cage, not good system design.  This is vapor lock waiting to happen, or an engine out due to air entering through a pinhole leak causing the fuel pumps to lose their prime.



The last picture shows my first fuel system with the clear line running up to the engine, and out to the carburetors.  This type of fuel line melts very easily, and is also very thin and easily cut.  This is a fire, or at least an engine failure waiting to happen.  Rotax came up with a fix for their 912 engines, I copied what Rotax did and put aviation fuel line with firesleeve on my engine.



Like John H. says, we are all free to chose what we do with our airplanes, and I agree.  For those that like clear fuel line and always will, that is your choice, just be careful and keep inspecting it as often as possible...   These posts and pictures are for those that want good information on fuel systems and their design.   There is much more information about fuel systems than I know, or I could possibly present here, but hopefully this will start some people thinking.  I would encourage everyone wondering about this subject to research recommended aviation fuel system design and materials to make Kolb as safe and reliable as possible.  The EAA has a lot of excellent articles and suggestions on this subject.



Fly Safe,



Mike

UltralightMikeKolbDetail01-18-2007-13.JPG

Description:

A fire or failure waiting to happen. Easily melted line in close proximity to hot exhaust pipes, and also prone to being cut or chafed open.

Filesize:

453.41 KB

Viewed:

429 Time(s)

UltralightMikeKolbDetail12-27-2006-114.JPG

Description:

Improper fuel system design, fuel being sucked up at least 2 feet causing gas bubbles to form in the fuel.

Filesize:

375.19 KB

Viewed:

413 Time(s)

FuelLineBubbles1.jpg

Description:

Bubbles forming in Gasoline due to low pressure... NO LEAK !!!

Filesize:

82.46 KB

Viewed:

387 Time(s)

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: fuel line?

At 12:01 AM 9/16/2008, JetPilot wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  If your fuel system were properly designed, you would not have the need to 

look for little bubbles in the fuel line....There is also no need for 

primer bulbs that fail, causing air, or blockages in the fuel line.   A 40 

dollar Facet pump solves all these problems and more.  If you start to get 

vapor lock in flight, the ability to see those gas bubbles are forming in 

the fuel line is not going to make your engine run.



I have to agree with you on one thing, if you are making the mistake of 

using a pump to suck fuel up from a tank, then you probably have a need to 

look for bubbles in the fuel line..... When I saw all the bubbles forming 

in the line after the filter, it became obvious to me that this was 

hazardous.....


	


Some of us don't have the luxury of pushing the fuel up with an electric 

fuel pump, and a pulse pump can be located only so far from the engine.  I 

no longer have a primer bulb, but one can get a blockage from many 

things... including moisture in the paper filter shown in your pictures.



-Dana

--

  Can I deduct last years taxes as a bad investment?

N111KX (Kip)

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Atlanta, GA

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: Re: fuel line?

I have had great success with automotive "fuel injection" tubing from NAPA or similar. It's black, very stiff and durable. Sorry that I don't have a part#. I use metal hose clamps also. Never had a fuel problem in 8 years.

Kip

_________________
Kip
Firestar II, N111KX
Waiex, N111YX
Quickie 1, N111QX
Atlanta

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: fuel line?

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  



but one can get a blockage from many 

things... including moisture in the paper filter shown in your pictures.



-Dana

--

 	




This is true, paper filter elements can be very problematic with the ethanol now found in most gasoline.  I will take some pictures of the second version of my fuel system and post them soon.   The paper fuel filter has been replaced with a Challenger Stainless Steel 10 micron fuel filter from Aircraft Spruce.   It was expensive, but after reading the EAA's statistics on the percentage of experimental aircraft failures caused by bad fuel system design, I decided it was worth the 130 dollars for the filter.  The stainless steel filter is designed to be taken apart and cleaned, so it should be a one time purchase.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: fuel line?

> This is true, paper filter elements can be very problematic with the 

ethanol now found in most gasoline.  I will take some pictures of the second 

version of my fuel system and post them soon.   The paper fuel filter has 

been replaced with a Challenger Stainless Steel 10 micron fuel filter from 

Aircraft Spruce.   It was expensive, but after reading the EAA's statistics 

on the percentage of experimental aircraft failures caused by bad fuel 

system design, I decided it was worth the 130 dollars for the filter.  The 

stainless steel filter is designed to be taken apart and cleaned, so it 

should be a one time purchase.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Mike


	


Mike B:



I don't like paper element fuel filters, primarily because we had so much 

trouble with them and moisture back in the 1980's.  More than 20 years ago, 

the industry has done a good job of improving the composition of paper 

elements in fuel filters.  I haven't heard of this problem in many years.



There is nothing wrong with the fuel systems we have been using in our 

ultralights and light planes for the 24 years that I have been playing with 

these things.  Mikuni has a good reputation of "pulling" fuel from low tanks 

to feed the two strokes.  Pierberg fuel pumps used on 912 series engines 

have been around for decades.  Very popular on German autos, Opel, Taunas, 

and others.  It is also a good puller.  I can account for more than 14,000 

gallons of fuel being pulled through my Pierbergs, up 14,500 feet above sea 

level, in my mkIII alone.  I don't think we need to reinvent our fuel 

systems, but we do need to insure they are serviceable, whether we use clear 

plastic or expensive aviation type fuel line.  I for one would not spend 

130.00 for a fuel filter, when the purolator filter I have been using since 

1984, on all three of my airplanes, has done an excellent job.  That's 

right.  Nearly 5,000 operational hours, from the 35 hp Cuyuna to the 100 hp 

912ULS, this little filter has been doing its job.  Have no idea how many 

nylon elements have gone through it, but it still works great, except for 

the first night it was installed on my Ultrastar.  Either I over tightened 

the filter or had a bad glass cylinder, but the glass had broken during the 

night and my 6 gallons of mogas had drained out of the new 6 gallon tank.  I 

made one modification to the filter, replaced the glass with the same size 

7/8 X .058 6061T6 aluminum tube, never having that problem again.  My good 

friend, John W, flew with the same filter and the glass cylinder with no 

problems.  I have one on my Onan generator that has been in operation 

several thousand hours, with glass cylinder, and no problems.



I am happy that you have updated your fuel system.  I thought Bryan Milburn 

had done a pretty good job when he built your MKIIIx and installed the fuel 

system.  However, I am sure your updates have improved your fuel system. 

Because you made these updates is not an indication that the rest of us out 

here in Kolb Land are wrong and need to follow suit.............



I try not to tell others to do what I do.  I like to tell and show them what 

I have done, then leave it up to them to make the decision what they want to 

do with their individual airplanes.  I can assure you, in the past 24 years 

I have seen some aircraft applications and systems that were pretty 

frightening to me, but did not phase the folks that were flying the 

airplanes.



I use what I use on my airplane because I have proven to myself that it 

works.  There are times that my stuff failed, but I had to get out there and 

put a lot of time on the aircraft to test it.  If I see something that will 

improve my airplane, an idea that someone else has come up with, I will make 

the change to my airplane if I feel that it is worthwhile and I can afford 

it.



Got to go get my mkIII ready to fly to the Kolb Homecoming.  Bruce Chaison 

is flying his MKIII from Louisiana to Wetumpka airport tomorrow, RON with 

James Tripp, then we three will fly to Labhart Field Thursday morning. 

Weather for the Homecoming looks great!!!



See you all then...............



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: fuel line?

 	  John Hauck wrote: 	
		  



I try not to tell others to do what I do.  I like to tell and show them what 

I have done, then leave it up to them to make the decision what they want to 

do with their individual airplanes. 



john h

mkIII 	




John,



Most of the time I am smart enough to do what you do without being told     When I have a question, or need to see the best way to do something on a Kolb, the first thing I do is pull up all the pictures I have taken of you plane.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: fuel line?

"JetPilot" wrote: << The paper fuel filter has been replaced with

a Challenger Stainless Steel 10 micron fuel filter from Aircraft Spruce.



It was expensive, ... 130 dollars for the filter.  The stainless steel

filter is designed to be taken apart and cleaned, so it should be a one

time purchase. Mike >>

Mike, and Kolbers -



Another (less expensive) option to the paper element filter are the

in-line clear glass "micro screen" cartridge filters, available at most

auto parts stores.  You've heard them recommended by various Kolbers

more than once over the past several years.  



Purolator and Mr Gasket make these types of filters; I'm sure there are

others.  They're usually under 15 dollars.  The screens are replaceable

- you just toss the old one.  Because they're glass, you can see the

junk accumulating on the screen inside, and change it when necessary.  I

do this every annual.  At annual, I also check and replace the rubber

o-rings on the filter (there are 2).  Easy, cheap, and o-rings are

always available.



I remember Hauck telling us the story of how the glass on his Purolator

filter broke once (John - I do not recall the details, did that happen

in flight?), which prompted him to replace the glass tube with the same

diameter, same length piece of alum tube.  Works the same.

Dennis Kirby

Mark-3, 912ul

NM

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: fuel line?

Dennis, all, I have recent experience with the filter you describe marketed under the Mr. Gasket brand name. In a word it was junk. As it happens, I had one of the originals, which proudly said made in the USA cast into one of the end pieces, to compare it to (ran it on my Harley until I switched from the S & S carb to the SU, but that's another story).  The difference between the two is that the center piece on the original was round and the filter fit on it snugly so that it could take a bit of compression and allow the filter element to seal against the ends without distortion. The center section also had machined threads that were dead square to it and of a fit that the ends threaded on smoothly and enabled the o-ring seal in each end to do as it was intended. The barbed ends for the fuel lines were cast into the ends and then machined for a good seal on the fuel line. Of course that meant you had to purchase the proper filter for the size fuel line you were using.

 On the Mr. Gasket version (made proudly in the land where they put melamine in baby formula so they can kill their children for a few cents profit, but that truly is another story) the center is a flat casting of pot metal made so poorly that the threads were misaligned side to side (the parting line of the casting ran right down the middle) so that in order to actually function as threads they are so loose as to be worthless and the misalignment causes the ends to hold the glass barrel so that one side of the o-ring didn't even touch the barrel. If the ends were screwed down enough to stop it from leaking the o-ring was chewed up by the parting line inside the cap. The threads on the center, being only an 1/8" (~3mm) thick got distorted furthering the problem of their being too poor a fit to start with. When the ends were screwed down enough to make a sort of seal the ends were visibly out of square and the filter was buckled on one side. The end caps are threaded and several sizes of plastic barb fittings are supplied so it's a one filter fits all (1/4, 5/16, and 3/ common fuel lines. The problem here was that there was so much chrome buildup on the first two threads on the cap that they stripped the plastic fittings as you threaded them in. Regular brass barbed fittings would not thread in at all.

 My suggestion would be that if you are buying on of these cheap knock off filters you get it at the local auto parts so you can ask the nice kid behind the counter if you can open it right there and inspect it for these types of defects. It won't solve your search for an alternative to paper fuel filters, but it will save  you your $15 or a trip back to the store to return it.

 Just my experience, yours might be different.

Rick

do no archive



 On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil (Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Kirby, Dennis CTR USAF AFMC MDA/AL" <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil (Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil)>

 

 

 

 

 "JetPilot" wrote: << The paper fuel filter has been replaced with

 a Challenger Stainless Steel 10 micron fuel filter from Aircraft Spruce.

 

 It was expensive, ... 130 dollars for the filter.  The stainless steel

 filter is designed to be taken apart and cleaned, so it should be a one

 time purchase. Mike >>

 

 

 Mike, and Kolbers -

 

 Another (less expensive) option to the paper element filter are the

 in-line clear glass "micro screen" cartridge filters, available at most

 auto parts stores.  You've heard them recommended by various Kolbers

 more than once over the past several years.

 

 Purolator and Mr Gasket make these types of filters; I'm sure there are

 others.  They're usually under 15 dollars.  The screens are replaceable

 - you just toss the old one.  Because they're glass, you can see the

 junk accumulating on the screen inside, and change it when necessary.  I

 do this every annual.  At annual, I also check and replace the rubber

 o-rings on the filter (there are 2).  Easy, cheap, and o-rings are

 always available.

 

 I remember Hauck telling us the story of how the glass on his Purolator

 filter broke once (John - I do not recall the details, did that happen

 in flight?), which prompted him to replace the glass tube with the same

 diameter, same length piece of alum tube.  Works the same.

 

 

 Dennis Kirby

 Mark-3, 912ul

 NM

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: fuel line?

Rick:

  

 Most of us bought a Purolator.  Been using one  for 24 years, and about 4,300 hours on my three Kolbs.  Only problem I had  with mine was a cracked glass cylinder the first night it was on my  Ultrastar.  Replaced it with a piece of aluminum tube, 7/8X.058, and have  been filtering fuel every since, almost 18,000 gallons.  

  

 Most all the popular parts houses have the  Purolator fuel filter with glass cylinder and nylon mesh filter.

  

 One of the convenient thing about this filter is  the small elements and "0" rings.  They fit in my flight bag, taking up  nearly no space.  I can stick a couple replacements in there.   Changing out requires a common screw driver and a 1/2" or 13mm wrench.   Pretty simple.  I like it that way.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]    

   Dennis, all, I have recent experience with the filter you    describe marketed under the Mr. Gasket brand name. In a word it was    junk.      

   Just my experience, yours might be different.

   



   Rick

    



[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: fuel line?

John, That was what I was trying to point out. Mine is 16 years old. These filters used to be well made and a good value, but what is sold today only looks like those under very casual inspection. If you look at them closely they reveal themselves to be junk. I wouldn't have one on my lawn mower. I thought it might be just that particular brand, but I have been unable to find one made like the one I bought years ago. I tried to find the Purolator version of this filter but it doesn't appear in their online catalog and I couldn't find it at any of the aftermarket suppliers either.

Caveat emptor.

 Rick



On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 9:48 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		          Rick:

  

 Most of us bought a Purolator.  Been using one  for 24 years, and about 4,300 hours on my three Kolbs.  Only problem I had  with mine was a cracked glass cylinder the first night it was on my  Ultrastar.  Replaced it with a piece of aluminum tube, 7/8X.058, and have  been filtering fuel every since, almost 18,000 gallons.  

  

 Most all the popular parts houses have the  Purolator fuel filter with glass cylinder and nylon mesh filter.

  

 One of the convenient thing about this filter is  the small elements and "0" rings.  They fit in my flight bag, taking up  nearly no space.  I can stick a couple replacements in there.   Changing out requires a common screw driver and a 1/2" or 13mm wrench.   Pretty simple.  I like it that way.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  	  Quote: 	
		      

   Dennis, all, I have recent experience with the filter you    describe marketed under the Mr. Gasket brand name. In a word it was    junk.      

   Just my experience, yours might be different.

   



   Rick

    



	
    [/b] 	


[b]

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Page 3 of 4

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum