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Floscan and IO/360

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Jerry Cochran

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Wilsonville, OR

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

Hey Folks,

 

Anyone with an injected engine have pix of their Floscan setup? This is for  

the center tunnel ala RV7-7a with center boost pump. I don't see any really 

good  spots inside the firewall and would rather not subject it to engine heat,  

although one guy in the archives mounted it just upstream from the 

divider...Any  and all advice, pix more than welcome.

 

Jerry Cochran

Wilsonville, OR

Closer & closer...

dwight(at)openweave.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

Jerry,



If I remember right (call him to verify) Don at Airflow Performance

recommends mounting it near the flow divider. I figure they have been

in the biz of making things work in the engine compartment long enough

that I'll trust their opinion. Sure saves having to shoe-horn it into

the center tunnel. I intend to find out more details next weekend when

I go down to take their "Fuel Injection 101" class as I'll have the

same issue to deal with eventually.



  -- Dwight



On Sun Feb 26 17:18:55 2006, Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote :

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hey Folks,

 

Anyone with an injected engine have pix of their Floscan setup? This is for  

the center tunnel ala RV7-7a with center boost pump. I don't see any really 

good  spots inside the firewall and would rather not subject it to engine heat,  

although one guy in the archives mounted it just upstream from the 

divider...Any  and all advice, pix more than welcome.

 

Jerry Cochran

dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

Mine is mounted between the fuel servo and the flow divider, per 

instructions. I didn't see any reason to change to any other location.



Dave



Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hey Folks,

 

Anyone with an injected engine have pix of their Floscan setup? This is for  

the center tunnel ala RV7-7a with center boost pump. I don't see any really 

good  spots inside the firewall and would rather not subject it to engine heat,  

although one guy in the archives mounted it just upstream from the 

divider...Any  and all advice, pix more than welcome.

 

Jerry Cochran

Wilsonville, OR

Closer & closer...

wgill10(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

Hello Dwight,



Please post information on the list regarding the Floscan location after

your class.



Best regards,



Bill

--

dwight(at)openweave.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

Since William requested the information I thought I'd float a post regarding

the suggested install location for the Floscan sensor. To give a little bit

of background, I attended the "Fuel Injection 101" class given by Airflow

Performance at their factory in Spartanburg, SC.



I'm going to inject a personal opinion here. If you don't want to read about

how much I enjoyed the FI-101 class, skip past this paragraph.   The class

is great and is, in my opinion, a tremendous resource. If you are considering

installing FI in your plane and don't already have good knowledge about how

fuel injection works (particularly if you are installing an Airflow or Bendix

system!) I would very much recommend the class. Don Rivera teaches the bulk

of the class (though you spend time with his technicians as well getting to

run the fuel injection components on their diagnostic flow benches too!) and

communicates both the theory and practice of fuel injection in a way that

even *I* could understand. There is classroom time, hands-on lab time, hanger

time, and social time. Don and Colleen are great hosts .. and API is a small

friendly operation that really welcomes and educates folks at these classes.

The class is enthusiastically recommended. If you have any other questions

about my experience at the class last-weekend write me off-list as this is

already starting to sound too much like an ad for API.



Ok .... soapbox mode off .... other than to say I have NO affiliation with

Airflow Performance other than as a customer and student.  



The easy location for installing the Floscan seems to be after the fuel

controller, but before the purge valve (or the flow divider, if you don't

use a purge valve). Regarding the recommendations to install the sensor

with certain minimum amounts of straight line in front/behind the unit and

the wires exiting strairht up ... my impression was that these constraints

should be met for those situations where you need EXTREMELY precice flow

measurements (like in a laboratory setting). For our applications that

extreme level of precision isn't going to add any significant value. Ease

of installation and servicing carries (for me, at least .. YMMV) more weight.



Therefore, as long as there is some (even relatively minimal) straight section

of tubing .. maybe even just a fittings-worth .. ahead of the Floscan it

has proven to operate just fine. The folks at API have seen (and performend)

a number of installations with these sorts of installation criteria and have

not seen any problems with the operation of the units. I'll be installing

mine as suggested ... after the fuel controller, and before my purge valve.



  -- Dwight



On Sun Feb 26 22:49:27 2006, William Gill wrote :

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hello Dwight,



Please post information on the list regarding the Floscan location after

your class.



Best regards,

randy(at)romeolima.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'll be installing

 mine as suggested ... after the fuel controller, and before my purge 

 valve.

  -- Dwight


	




Dwight,



Was anything said in the class about the fact that if you mount the sensor 

this far downstream it will necessarily be mounted to the engine itself in 

some manner and therefore subjected to significant vibration and heat? The 

Floscan needs to be horizontal so that means it will likely be on top of the 

cylinders somewhere near the flow divider.



I'll need to make a decision on where to mount mine in a few months. On my 

last RV I mounted it behind the firewall and it worked very well.



Randy Lervold

dwight(at)openweave.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

Randy,



Those issues were brought up (by me, in fact). I'm always cautious about

being conveying, second-hand, something someone else said. For that reason

rather than start this off by saying "Don said" .. I'll couch it more in

"what I understood was" type of language. There is always the possibility

that I mis-understood (and I would be happy to be corrected) so if you have

any concerns at all ... call API and ask them straight out. 



So ... what I understood was that while Floscan tends to specify optimal

installation requirements (horizontal, wires facing up, with certain minimum

amounts of straight lines leading into and out of the unit) that in practice

there is a lot more flexibility in how they can be installed and still

perform.  My understanding is that they have been successfully installed

vertically with a short straight fitting leading into the sensor and a

90-degree fitting leading immediately out hanging down between two cylinders.

This seems to be in opposition to virtually ALL the requirements I have

heard for Floscan installations .... but the units reportedly worked fine

and gave good service.



Note that the class didn't focus on issues like Floscan installation, and

this was a side-discussion with Don because I was particularly interested

in hearing what his experience had been with the units. I have been trying

to decide if I need to arrange for the installation of the sensor now (which

would require finding/making space in my cabin tunnel area as others have

done), or if I can put it off until firewall-forward time. The approach

suggested by API sure opens the door to a lot of flexibility ... though

clearly if you accommodate the optimal install (horizontal, wires up, long

runs fore/aft, etc.) then you CLEARLY can't be going wrong.



I guess it is an issue of comfort level since there is disagreement about

what is the minimum install requirements for the device. API has a lot of

engine experience, but it could be argued that Floscan knows their product

too. How to decide? Beats me.   Don's real-world experience leads me to

feel confident in his opinion. But if you've not met Don and heard what he

has to say first-hand ... then I wouldn't blame you for coming to a totally

different opinion. (Wouldn't it be boring, though a good bit quieter, if we

all had identical opinions about things??)



  -- Dwight



On Wed Mar  8 14:03:29 2006, Randy Lervold wrote :

 	  Quote: 	
		  Dwight,



Was anything said in the class about the fact that if you mount the sensor 

this far downstream it will necessarily be mounted to the engine itself in 

some manner and therefore subjected to significant vibration and heat? The 

Floscan needs to be horizontal so that means it will likely be on top of the 

cylinders somewhere near the flow divider.



I'll need to make a decision on where to mount mine in a few months. On my 

last RV I mounted it behind the firewall and it worked very well.



Randy Lervold

Don

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 13

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Floscan and IO/360

I'll chime in here.  Dwight is correct in his assessment of the Flowscan installation.  Although the reason we don't like to install the device on the suction side of the engine driven pump is the fact that the Flowscan has a fairly small hole going into the transducer.  By having this restriction on the suction side of the engine driven fuel pump you are inviting possible vapor problems.  I know a lot of people have done it this way(mounted the Flowscan in the cabin), but to me your rolling the dice.  Also on carbureted installations you can get away with some installation issues that you can't with fuel injection.



That said we have always mounted the Flowscan device after the fuel control (servo) and before the flow divider.  We always install AN816-4-4D fittings in the inlet and outlet of the Flowscan.  I have used a hose as short as 3" on the inlet side (all straight fittings) and a hose with a full flow 90 degree fitting on the outlet end.  We have done some installations where the wires came out horizontal.  These installations all worked fine.  The Flowscan is never mounted directly to the engine, but hung between the hoses which are supported or supported to the engine mount with Adel clamps.  The trick here is to keep the metered hose as short as possible.  I have seen certified installations where the Flowscan was mounted directly to the outlet fitting on the engine driven pump or to the inlet fitting on the flow divider.  I guess this works too but not my choice.   I haven't had any issues with heat on the Flowscan, typically the transducer is protected with firesleeve after the installation is complete.



That's my take on the installation, if you have additional questions on this subject you can contact me at airflow2(at)bellsouth.net.



Don

dwight(at)openweave.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

I am glad you did chime in Don .. as it is better to get it straight from

the source than second-hand through me! It also is nice to know that I

was remembering the details I gave correctly.  



I _knew_ there was another reason you didn't like the installation in the

cabin, but could not for the life of me remember why ... and since I could

not remember the details of that point, I decided to not say anything.



I had forgotten about the issue of the Floscan adding a restriction in 

the feed line and causing pressure loss and because of that possible vapor

problems. Furthermore ... remembering the vapor pressure table reminds

me that when it comes to possible vaporization of fuel pressure (more,

rather than less) is your friend.



See, I did learn something (I hope!).   



  -- Dwight



do not archive ... as this is just a "me too" followup post ...



On Wed Mar  8 17:31:00 2006, Don wrote :

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'll chime in here.  Dwight is correct in his assessment of the Flowscan

installation. [ ... snip ... ]

wgill10(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: Floscan and IO/360

Don,



Great information here and sounds like you have a lot of experience. I

would appreciate any pictures you might have concerning this

installation as well as from others that have done it this way. Thanks.



Best regards,

Bill Gill

RV-7 avionics & finish

Lee's Summit, MO

--

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