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herbgh(at)nctc.com
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 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: C box bearings |
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Looking at the cps catalog...I see that the bearings for the c and e
gear boxes are the same 932-420 #23 is a 6205 C3 , 932-820 #14
is a 6305 C3, 932-570 is a 6306 C3.. C3 means deep groove near as I
can tell.. All seals seem to be standard...off the shelf
parts.. same for bearings.. The difference being that they are
about one fourth to one third as expensive as CPS prices...
That said...ran into a wall...with the roller bearing that
supports the back of the propeller shaft.. #11... $101 at
CPS.. I can measure it and come up with a fit..but would be nice
to have the generic number if someone on the list has it at hand...
The oil seals run from 20 to 70 bucks...at CPS.. usually cost 3
or 4 bucks each at a bearing house... Herb
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Re: C box bearings |
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| herbgh(at)nctc.com wrote: | Looking at the cps catalog...I see that the bearings for the c and e
gear boxes are the same 932-420 #23 is a 6205 C3 , 932-820 #14
is a 6305 C3, 932-570 is a 6306 C3.. C3 means deep groove near as I
can tell.. All seals seem to be standard...off the shelf
parts.. same for bearings.. The difference being that they are
about one fourth to one third as expensive as CPS prices...
That said...ran into a wall...with the roller bearing that
supports the back of the propeller shaft.. #11... $101 at
CPS.. I can measure it and come up with a fit..but would be nice
to have the generic number if someone on the list has it at hand...
The oil seals run from 20 to 70 bucks...at CPS.. usually cost 3
or 4 bucks each at a bearing house... Herb |
If they're like the crank seals on the 2-strokes, the Rotax parts are not the same as the aftermarket ones (the rotax parts have a Viton coating on the inner lip).
I still have my old C box off the original motor that was on my FS II. I remember talking about it with the builder - it had had an aftermarket seal put in it but it continued to leak. Replacement with a rotax seal fixed the problem.
So I suspect the Rotax part is probably required.
Try lockwood aviation or Ronnie Smith - they may have a lower price...
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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R. Hankins
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: C box bearings |
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Herb,
I've been working with bearings on a daily basis for the last ten years or so. Thought you might want to know that C3 is a reference to bearing internal clearance, not the type of bearing. C3 bearings are called for where you have a condition that can reduce the internal clearance of the bearing (such as high temperature, the outer race pressed into a bore, and/or the inner race being press fit over a shaft).
Bearing catalogs will tell you that C3 bearings have extra clearance compared to "normal" bearings, but C3 is the default today. If there is nothing listed after the bearing number, it is a safe bet that it is a C3 (usually with two rubber seals). I have had difficulty finding replacement C2 (low clearance) and "normal" bearings for applications where they are required.
Here is good link to the basics:
http://www.bearing-king.co.uk/how-to-measure-a-bearing.php
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Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C |
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: C box bearings |
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Thanks Roger
The CPS catalog simply indicates a generic number...ie: 6205 with
the suffix C3.. I have seen that referred to as deep groove. Mean
anything more?
And how about seals...any preference towards lip compound? Viton? Herb
At 08:17 PM 9/15/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Herb,
I've been working with bearings on a daily basis for the last ten
years or so. Thought you might want to know that C3 is a reference
to bearing internal clearance, not the type of bearing. C3 bearings
are called for where you have a condition that can reduce the
internal clearance of the bearing (such as high temperature, the
outer race pressed into a bore, and/or the inner race being press
fit over a shaft).
Bearing catalogs will tell you that C3 bearings have extra clearance
compared to "normal" bearings, but C3 is the default today. If
there is nothing listed after the bearing number, it is a safe bet
that it is a C3 (usually with two rubber seals). I have had
difficulty finding replacement C2 (low clearance) and "normal"
bearings for applications where they are required.
Here is good link to the basics:
http://www.bearing-king.co.uk/how-to-measure-a-bearing.php
--------
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4482#204482
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R. Hankins
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: C box bearings |
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Herb:
| Quote: | I have seen that referred to as deep groove. Mean
anything more? |
Deep groove ball bearings are radial ball bearings designed to take axial loads from both directions (tension and compression of the shaft, if you will). It is the standard sort of bearing you think of if someone says "ball bearing"
All of the bearing numbers you listed above would be considered deep groove ball bearings. If you go with after market, stick with major brands such as SKF, FAG, NTN, INA, etc. and be sure to read the bearing itself to see where it was made. Location can vary widely even within the same brand. Of course stay away from China, Malaysia, India, etc. I have had good luck with USA, Japan, France, Austria, Germany, and the Czech Republic.
The hidden cost in the original bearings might be tolerance class. The Austrians do not compromise quality when it comes to bearings. The engineers at Rotax have surely done their research and specified bearings with certain minimum and maximum clearances suitable to the temperatures, loads and mounting fits of the gearbox. Not all bearings with the same number and clearance rating are created equal. The smaller the tolerance range, the more expensive the bearing. There is really no way of knowing if your after-market bearing fits their spec (unless you can get some inside info on the spec). Your chances go way up if you buy the exact same brand, number, and clearance, made in the same country.
In short I would think that with all of the time and effort expended to rebuild a gearbox, saving even a couple hundred bucks on bearings may not be cheap in the long run. If your gearbox fails and puts you down in a rough field or the trees, it will not seem like a good deal. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that the $12 bearings you purchase at the local bearing store will perform well. You do increase your chances (and the cost of course) vastly by buying from the gearbox manufacturer.
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Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C |
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Steven Green
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: C box bearings |
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I am working from memory here soooo.. If it is SKF's numbering system, the
6000 series bearings are deep grove single row ball bearings. The C3 suffix
means that the bearing has greater than normal internal radial clearance.
The C3 IS important.
Steven Green
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: C box bearings |
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Steve
The 6000 series seems to be made by everyone.. judging by the
Google search.. I am not absolutely certain, but I think that the C
box uses std 6000 series bearings with the C3 suffix... Herb
At 11:07 AM 9/16/2008, you wrote:
[quote]
I am working from memory here soooo.. If it is SKF's numbering
system, the 6000 series bearings are deep grove single row ball
bearings. The C3 suffix means that the bearing has greater than
normal internal radial clearance. The C3 IS important.
Steven Green
---
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