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bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

1) Just wondering what kind of indicated airspeed  everyone is getting.  I',m only getting about 70mph with a Rotax 912 ULS  woodcomp prop at about 5400 rpm's.  Is this normal or is my airspeed  indicator off?  Haven't had a chance to check it yet.

 2) With slow flight and apporach to landing  something clatters and bangs back in the fuselge, presumably oil canning.   Normal?  I checked everything else and nothing is loose.

 3)  Yesterday my engine faltered under full  throttle and climb out and immediately got better when throttled back.  On  my Dynon monitor a Low Fuel Pressure warning popped up and it showed only about  1.9 to 2 psi, yet fuel flow was 5 gallons per hour.  I returned home and  checked the fuel flow and there is plenty of unobstructed flow as far as the  front of the firewall anyway.  I have a gascolater in front of the firewall  that I'll check and clean today.  The fuel pressure and fuel flow senders  spliced into the line shouldn't obstruct the flow.  On the ground at idle  it is about 3 - 3.5 psi.  Any ideas?  It seems to run itself out of  gas past about 5400rpm!?!

 4) I was just getting used to the pitch sensitivity  of the elevator and recieved the VG's from JG (in only a week! Send them via SST  or SR-71?)  Put them on the elevator and wow!!  Almost too much  sensitivity!  It throws itself into the air and I found I have to be ready  for it.

 Still in the learning curve of flying it, so  haven't really done much testing of things yet.  Mainly getting it up and  down comfortably at this point.

   [quote][b]

cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

I have the same engine and prop and cruise at 4400  rpm (nice and quiet and low fuel burn) and show about 78mph + or minus depending  on gross weight, turbulence and if I'm paying attention. This is on my Dynon and  conventional ASI, both are within a MPH of each other. 

 I get the same clatter in slow flight. In my case  it's the back of the baggage compartment that starts oil canning and banging at  about 50mph.

 Can't comment on the fuel issues -- I haven't had  any.

 Gordon  

 [quote]   ---

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Wow, you must have your prop adjusted pretty  coarse.  Mine's probably too far the other way.

 I checked and was able to oil can the back of the  baggage compartment and also the belly hatch.  Maybe an L angle stiffener  added here will "can" the noise!

 Thanks for the suggestions.

 [quote]   ---

cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

I set the prop according to the woodcomp  instructions. 5450 static rpm --- it leaps off the ground in a very short  distance.  

 [quote]   ---

bobkat

Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Bismarck, ND

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

That's what I set mine!  Wonder where my speed  is gong?  Eyeballing outside I thought I was going about the same speed as  my Kitfox. Is there a setting on the Dynon?  If all else fails I'll have to  read the directions. Ha!

 Thanks

 [quote]   ---

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Probably other 701 pilots have noticed this:

  

 Keep the oil  canning,  is a cheap and "automatic" built in  Stall and  Slip "alarm" in the 701,   is a free bonus from ZAC no other airplane has  that makes it extra safe....

  

 Try to keep the ball centered always when flying and the low speed  betwen 50 and 60 mph  (with or without 15° of flaps)  when doing your approach and the "alarm" will not sound.   

 When I flair to land I can lower the speed a lot more, but I have not noticed any alarm, probably I am too focused in my landing to hear it.  

  

 Also I have noticed that keeping the ball centered I have an extra Bonus:  About  more than 5 mph increase in cruise speed over the "alarm" speed...  

  

 As my Instructor  told me  always in my student hours:  "keep the ball centered"   also a favorite from him was:  I want 60, NOT  59 or 61 only 60"    If I had recieve my instruction in the 701 he might only say:  "Keep that oil canning off"    

  

 Just my personal experience.

  

 About the post also,  I have my pitch set for 87 mph at 5,000 rpm cruise  (normally over 6,500 + ft ASL)

 moved the pitch a little at a time until got it set, cant remember the final degress of pitch, but was a little (like a milimeter) at a time. .

  

 Saludos

 Gary Gower

 Flying from Chapala,  Mexico

 701 912S  200 + hrs.

 Building a 601 XL Jab 3300.  

 "Hope will also have the "alarm" built in..." 

  

 



--- On Wed, 9/17/08, BokKat <bobkat(at)btinet.net> wrote:



 [quote]From: BokKat <bobkat(at)btinet.net>

Subject: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 12:02 PM



    Wow, you must have your prop adjusted pretty coarse.  Mine's probably too far the other way.

 I checked and was able to oil can the back of the baggage compartment and also the belly hatch.  Maybe an L angle stiffener added here will "can" the noise!

 Thanks for the suggestions.

 [quote] ---

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

BokKat,

 I also have 100-hp 912ULS engine but have a  3-blade Warpdrive prop. I set the pitch several times and found that if I let  the static (tied-down) RPM go to 5400, I get bad fuel economy and slower cruise  that at 5100 (a higher pitch). With this setting, at about 4900-RPM, I get  better than 5-GPH and cruise at about 79-MPH under near standard conditions  at 1000'. I can fly as low as 4000-RPM and get about 3-GPH.  I suggest you  increase your prop pitch and see how this impacts your speed and fuel  flow.

 Regarding your fuel flow problem; since you plane is  new its very possible your fuel filter has some construction junk in  it that constricts your fuel flow only at peak draw. If so, this  should be easy to fix. Also check to see if crud got into your gascolator  gas. If the filters and gascolator are clean, you may also need to check  the carb jets and float bowls for crud. Another possibility is that the  holes you drilled in your gas caps are too small or not properly  placed.

 I hope this helps,

 Les   



 [quote]         From:    owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    BokKat

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:34 AM

To:    zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: After 5    hours flight time, questions

   

   1) Just wondering what kind of indicated airspeed    everyone is getting.  I',m only getting about 70mph with a Rotax 912 ULS    woodcomp prop at about 5400 rpm's.  Is this normal or is my airspeed    indicator off?  Haven't had a chance to check it yet.

   2) With slow flight and apporach to landing    something clatters and bangs back in the fuselge, presumably oil    canning.  Normal?  I checked everything else and nothing is    loose.

   3)  Yesterday my engine faltered under full    throttle and climb out and immediately got better when throttled back.     On my Dynon monitor a Low Fuel Pressure warning popped up and it showed only    about 1.9 to 2 psi, yet fuel flow was 5 gallons per hour.  I returned    home and checked the fuel flow and there is plenty of unobstructed flow as far    as the front of the firewall anyway.  I have a gascolater in front of the    firewall that I'll check and clean today.  The fuel pressure and fuel    flow senders spliced into the line shouldn't obstruct the flow.  On the    ground at idle it is about 3 - 3.5 psi.  Any ideas?  It seems to run    itself out of gas past about 5400rpm!?!

   4) I was just getting used to the pitch    sensitivity of the elevator and recieved the VG's from JG (in only a week!    Send them via SST or SR-71?)  Put them on the elevator and wow!!     Almost too much sensitivity!  It throws itself into the air and I found I    have to be ready for it.

   Still in the learning curve of flying it, so    haven't really done much testing of things yet.  Mainly getting it up and    down comfortably at this point.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
[b]

dwilde(at)clearwire.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

BokKat wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   1) Just wondering what kind of indicated airspeed everyone is 

 getting.  I',m only getting about 70mph with a Rotax 912 ULS woodcomp 

 prop at about 5400 rpm's.  Is this normal or is my airspeed indicator 

 off?  Haven't had a chance to check it yet.

 2) With slow flight and apporach to landing something clatters and 

 bangs back in the fuselge, presumably oil canning.  Normal?  I checked 

 everything else and nothing is loose.

 3)  Yesterday my engine faltered under full throttle and climb out and 

 immediately got better when throttled back.  On my Dynon monitor a Low 

 Fuel Pressure warning popped up and it showed only about 1.9 to 2 psi, 

 yet fuel flow was 5 gallons per hour.  I returned home and checked the 

 fuel flow and there is plenty of unobstructed flow as far as the front 

 of the firewall anyway.  I have a gascolater in front of the firewall 

 that I'll check and clean today.  The fuel pressure and fuel flow 

 senders spliced into the line shouldn't obstruct the flow.  On the 

 ground at idle it is about 3 - 3.5 psi.  Any ideas?  It seems to run 

 itself out of gas past about 5400rpm!?!

 4) I was just getting used to the pitch sensitivity of the elevator 

 and recieved the VG's from JG (in only a week! Send them via SST or 

 SR-71?)  Put them on the elevator and wow!!  Almost too much 

 sensitivity!  It throws itself into the air and I found I have to be 

 ready for it.

 Still in the learning curve of flying it, so haven't really done much 

 testing of things yet.  Mainly getting it up and down comfortably at 

 this point.

 *



 *

1) I am getting 80 mph at 4700 rpm with 912S and three bladed Warp Drive 
	


prop at 12 degrees pitch in straight and level flight. 

2) I do not get a clatter but I do get a rumble at all speeds.

3)  I have not had any faltering of the engine at any time even though 

my water temps have been running on the high side of normal.

4)  The VG's are helpful.  The are worth the cost.



Dan Wilde   N948DW

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

[quote]With the Woodcomp 3 bladed composite prop where and how are people measuring the pitch angle? I have the Woodcomp prop and a Warp Drive protractor. -- Craig [b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

You should put the Warp Drive Protractor at the very tip of the blade, 

Craig.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   *With the Woodcomp 3 bladed composite prop where and how are people measuring the pitch angle? I have the Woodcomp prop and a Warp Drive protractor.*

 * *

 *-- Craig*

 * *

 *



 *

cscsail(at)gmavt.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Good point Gary. If the Dynon (in Bokkat's  case)   was not set up properly with the ball centered when the  plane is level he could be loosing a lot of speed by pushing the plane along  sideways.

 G  

 [quote]   ---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

2" in from the tip of the prop. I used the line between the red tips and  the black prop.

 Bob Spudis

  

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 9/17/2008 5:17:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  With the Woodcomp 3 bladed composite prop where and how are people measuring the pitch angle? I have the Woodcomp prop and a Warp Drive protractor. -- Craig 	
	


 

  



Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Thanks, any advice on an initial angle?  

   

-- Craig  

       

From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of NYTerminat(at)aol.com

 Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:23 PM

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions  

  

  

       

2" in from the tip of the prop. I used the line between the red tips and the black prop.  

    

Bob Spudis  

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

In a message dated 9/17/2008 5:17:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  With the Woodcomp 3 bladed composite prop where and how are people measuring the pitch angle? I have the Woodcomp prop and a Warp Drive protractor. -- Craig 	
	
  

    

   

  



 

         

  

Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.  

   	  Quote: 	
		     	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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		  -- Craig 	
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		  -- Craig 	
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       [quote][b]

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

The Woodcomp manual says 11- 12 degrees, I ended up at a little over 13  degrees. I would start at 13 and see what your static RPM is. You should be at  least 5400 static.

  

 Bob

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 9/17/2008 9:31:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Thanks,    any advice on an initial angle?   

    

--    Craig   

          

From:    owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    NYTerminat(at)aol.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:23    PM

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:    After 5 hours flight time,    questions



   

          

2" in    from the tip of the prop. I used the line between the red tips and the black    prop.

      

Bob    Spudis

      

 



	


 

  



Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

  [quote][b]

mwpicard

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions

At about 20 hours on the hobbs, my 701 with Rotax 912 ULS also exhibited partial fuel flow and I had a number of forced landings before we finally found the problem.  It turned out to be a piece of rubber hose debris in the fuel supply line installed by ROTAX at the factory.  So two cylinders were not getting fuel when the throttle was fully open and the rubber debris happened to oclude the small opening on the inlet side of the motor.  



I recommend you disassemble all the factory installed fuel lines and blow them out to make sure they are 100% clean.  I am surprised this could get through the Rotax quality control. It definitely could be a killer.  If you need more info contact Doug at Quality Sport Planes as he found the problem.  



Regarding the oil canning luggage compartment bulkhead.  I would really like to cut a large retangular window in it and install a pane of latex with bolts all around.  I would like to see all the way back into the plane.  Everyone so far has strongly disadvised it saying that it could weaken the plane.  I canÂ´t see how that flimsy oil canning bulkhead could be so structural....anyone?

thanks,

Martin Picard

701 en route to Australia (on a ship)

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Martin,

Glad you found the fuel starvation problem. My take on the bulkhead hole is

that you could probably do it, possibly hinging a door, but why not put some

reinforcement in the bulkhead first? I put a BRS chute on this bulkhead. I

needed to strengthen it first and could show you how I did it. Write

directly to me if you want a picture of what I did.

Les 



[quote] --

mwpicard

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Les,

thanks for your reply and encouragement.  I canÂ´t seem to figure out how to email you directly. Maybe you can message me directly or give me a tip on how to contact you to get the info on the bulkhead mods.

thanks

martin

royjp(at)yahoo.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Les, why not share it with the gang ?



Jean-Paul Roy



--- En date de : Sam, 20.9.08, Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com> a Ã©crit :

 [quote]De: Les Goldner <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>

Objet: RE: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Ã€: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Date: samedi 20 Septembre 2008, 0 h 06



[quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "Les Goldner" <lgold(at)quantum-associates.com>  Martin, Glad you found the fuel starvation problem. My take on the bulkhead hole is that you could probably do it, possibly hinging a door, but why not put some reinforcement in the bulkhead first? I put a BRS chute on this bulkhead. I needed to strengthen it first and could show you how I did it. Write directly to me if you want a picture of what I did. Les   > --

lrm(at)skyhawg.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Martin, use 1/8" lexan instead of plexaglass or any other plastic.  Lexan is extremely strong, somewhat flexible, and even bullet proof depending on thickness.  Use double sided automotive tape to attach it with nuts and bolts in the four corners.  Plexaglass is brittle, will break and has no give.   I think you will be actually gaining strength with lexan,  however, it is a little heavier.   

 

 Take care, Larry N1345L

 

 PS, glad you like the belly pod. 

 

 mwpicard wrote: [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "mwpicard" <mwpicard(at)gmail.com> (mwpicard(at)gmail.com)



At about 20 hours on the hobbs, my 701 with Rotax 912 ULS also exhibited partial fuel flow and I had a number of forced landings before we finally found the problem.  It turned out to be a piece of rubber hose debris in the fuel supply line installed by ROTAX at the factory.  So two cylinders were not getting fuel when the throttle was fully open and the rubber debris happened to oclude the small opening on the inlet side of the motor.  



I recommend you disassemble all the factory installed fuel lines and blow them out to make sure they are 100% clean.  I am surprised this could get through the Rotax quality control. It definitely could be a killer.  If you need more info contact Doug at Quality Sport Planes as he found the problem.  



Regarding the oil canning luggage compartment bulkhead.  I would really like to cut a large retangular window in it and install a pane of latex with bolts all around.  I would like to see all the way back into the plane.  Everyone so far has strongly disadvised it saying that it could weaken the plane.  I canÂ´t see how that flimsy oil canning bulkhead could be so structural....anyone?

thanks,

Martin Picard

701 en route to Australia (on a ship)





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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 



  	
 [b]

mwpicard

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: Re: After 5 hours flight time, questions

Larry,

thanks for your  reply and for all the ideas you shared with me that made my 701 better.    The pod is great see:



http://picasaweb.google.com/mwpicard/PicardZenithCH701#



You made it really well and even fitted it to your plane so that it went on mine without and changes. thanks!  I havenÂ´t actually put anything in it yet but I have flown around with it on heaps. You lose about 3mph at cruise speed but donÂ´t  seem to lose any Â¨STOLnessÂ¨.  I hope others know that you are selling these because they are definitely worth it - great additions to the plane for long trips.



cheers,

Martin

N69999

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