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Perspective builder

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daryl(at)rictor.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Hi group,



I've been lurking in this group since February and am interested in the CH

601 HD.  I have also been looking at the Sonex.  A downside to the Sonex is

that the wings are not easily removable.  I may be looking at trailering my

project to and from the airport and removable wings are desirable for me.



So, are the wings on the 601 HD easily removable?  If so, how much time does

it take and can one person do it easily?

Also, after speaking with a Sonex builder, he told me the airplane cannot be

operated with the canopy off, due to drag on the bulkhead aft of the canopy.



Is this also true for the CH 601?



thanks for your feedback!



Daryl

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Daryl-

    From what I understand, it's a 2 hour job to get the wings on+off a 601 

under good circumstances. If you're talking about trailering a plane to an 

airfield, flying, then coming home the same day neither the 601 or Sonex is 

a good choice. I figure on only doing it as few times as I have to with my 

HDS.

    As far as the canopy is concerned, I'm not qualified to answer that 

question.

                                                                    Bill

                                do not archive

---

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Hi Daryl,



I don't know the answer to your questions since I am building a 

Zodiac XL rather than HD.  The XL has been the "Front line" model for 

a number of years now.  It seems it is currently being replaced with 

the CH650, but that is a very similar plane.



The real difference between a Sonex and Zodiac is in the size of the 

plane and the room available for pilot and passenger.  I strongly 

suggest you find examples to sit in before making your final decision.



I don't think it is practical to fold the wings of any plane for 

travel to and from the airport.  I know of many people who thought 

this might work out but none that actually had success with this 

approach.  If you really want this feature you might consider a 

Kitfox that has really folding wings.  Of course it also has 

considerably less performance than a Zodiac or Sonex.



Good luck,



Paul

XL getting close

do not archive

At 04:28 PM 9/19/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi group,



I've been lurking in this group since February and am interested in the CH

601 HD.  I have also been looking at the Sonex.  A downside to the Sonex is

that the wings are not easily removable.  I may be looking at trailering my

project to and from the airport and removable wings are desirable for me.



So, are the wings on the 601 HD easily removable?  If so, how much time does

it take and can one person do it easily?

Also, after speaking with a Sonex builder, he told me the airplane cannot be

operated with the canopy off, due to drag on the bulkhead aft of the canopy.



Is this also true for the CH 601?



thanks for your feedback!



Daryl

annken100

Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 62

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Perspective builder

Hi Daryl,



I don't know about the amount of time it takes to remove the wings off of a 601HD, but I think it would be impractical.  As for flying the 601 with an open cockpit, I've seen several pictures on Zenith's website that show open cockpit 601's.  It seems like the open cockpit planes have some sort of covering over the baggage area opening. Here is the link:  http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo38.html



Good luck,



Ken Pavlou

_________________
601 XL / Corvair

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Some call the Sonex fun to fly, others call it twitchy.



As to removable wings, on a low wing metal kit plane I think your best bet

is the RV-12. Watch them remove and reattach the wings in under 5 minutes in

this video:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnWrXKfh_XM



The down-side to removable wings is a relatively small fuel tank in the

fuselage instead of the wings.



-- Craig



--

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Looking around in the Zenith page photos,  I remember watching some photos (I think in Europe)  of 601's "convertibles"  only the windshield...  Was some time ago, I am not completly sure about it.

 

Saludos

Gary Gower

Do not archive.



--- On Fri, 9/19/08, Daryl <daryl(at)rictor.org> wrote:



From: Daryl <daryl(at)rictor.org>

Subject: Perspective builder

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 7:28 PM






Hi group,



I've been lurking in this group since February and am interested in the CH

601 HD.  I have also been looking at the Sonex.  A downside to the Sonex is

that the wings are not easily removable.  I may be looking at trailering my

project to and from the airport and removable wings are desirable for me.



So, are the wings on the 601 HD easily removable?  If so, how much time does

it take and can one person do it easily?

Also, after speaking with a Sonex builder, he told me the airplane cannot be

operated with the canopy off, due to drag on the bulkhead aft of the canopy

hills(at)sunflower.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Howdy all



I have removed my 601 wings about 5 or 6 times.  It easy, but you need two

people and it takes me about 1 hour to do it, with an electric screw driver.



It takes about 2 hours to put them back on, with two people, at best.



Mostly, the wings are very thin skinned and very easy to damage off the

plane or in transport. My sonerai wings with 0.025 2024 skins were much

tougher I noticed.



Do it if you need two, or need to tow the plane cross country, other than

that, don't do it.  My kitfox 2 had a good folding design, it could be done

in 5 minutes with no help, with practice.



Roger

--

leo(at)zuehlfield.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Daryl,



I am one of the few that can tell you how a 601 flies without a canopy, 

a 601HDS anyway.  I took off on a nice sunny day in April here in Texas, 

turned crosswind and then downwind and leveled off at the same time.  At 

this point I lost my canopy.  There was an increase in noise, and wind 

in my face.  Everything that was in the baggage compartment (CDs, maps 

and rags) departed toward the dirty side.  I wear glasses so they sort 

of acted like goggles at least to the extent I could see the altimeter 

and airspeed.  The remaining approach and landing were quite normal but 

such configuration is not desirable.



Leo Gates

N601Z, CH601HDS TDO



Daryl wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi group,



 I've been lurking in this group since February and am interested in the CH

 601 HD.  I have also been looking at the Sonex.  A downside to the Sonex is

 that the wings are not easily removable.  I may be looking at trailering my

 project to and from the airport and removable wings are desirable for me.



 So, are the wings on the 601 HD easily removable?  If so, how much time does

 it take and can one person do it easily?

 Also, after speaking with a Sonex builder, he told me the airplane cannot be

 operated with the canopy off, due to drag on the bulkhead aft of the canopy.



 Is this also true for the CH 601?



 thanks for your feedback!



 Daryl

daryl(at)rictor.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Thanks for all of the input, folks.  Sounds as if the canopy can be removed,

with some adjustments to windscreen and baggage areas.  But, the wings are

not of the quick and easy to remove/attach variety.



I like both CH 601 and Sonex designs, and their performance.  I may have to

work around the wing issue.



My budget will not allow for a $30k airplane.  I plan on using an Aerovee

80HP engine with a plans-built design; with the hopes of keeping it a simple

and inexpensive day VFR machine.  Maximum fun for minimum cost - every man's

dream I know, but one that can be achieved with perseverance.



Thanks again for the input!



Daryl





--

marin

Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Stanwood WA

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: Perspective builder

Daryl



Both the zenith and Sonex are good planes but if the wing removal is a very

important thing to you then I suggest the RV-12 as it is set up for wing

removal in less then 15 min and handles are in the wing just for that.



Marin

Bushcaddy E-LSA

--

_________________
Marin

steerr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: Perspective builder

As a 601HD builder who has my wings on and off several times, I agree 

with the replies of others on the list who say it's at least a two hour 

job to take them off or put them on, and it's a two person job.  This 

can be shortened just a bit by using quick connect/disconnect fittings 

for wiring and the pitot/static system, but it's still a pain.  There 

are lots of things to line up - bottom skin clips, front and rear 

connectors, the cover strip, and the spar plates.  Once a few bolts are 

slipped through the spar plate holes, the rest go in fairly quickly, but 

it's still time consuming.  The aileron connections are easy.



Hope this helps.  I can't say anything about the Sonex.



Bill

Daryl wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi group,



 I've been lurking in this group since February and am interested in the CH

 601 HD.  I have also been looking at the Sonex.  A downside to the Sonex is

 that the wings are not easily removable.  I may be looking at trailering my

 project to and from the airport and removable wings are desirable for me.



 So, are the wings on the 601 HD easily removable?  If so, how much time does

 it take and can one person do it easily?

 Also, after speaking with a Sonex builder, he told me the airplane cannot be

 operated with the canopy off, due to drag on the bulkhead aft of the canopy.



 Is this also true for the CH 601?



 thanks for your feedback!



 Daryl

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