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Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Feedback wanted

Hi,

this is my desired panel layout. I would appreciate your feedback.



Best 

Michael

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_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Feedback wanted

On the left side, if you go with a 4500, I don't think you will have enough room for the 2.25 BU instruments.  Maybe with a 3500.  I will do some measuring tonight.  I have a 4500 on the left and like you 2 center stacks.  I put my 3 2.25 BU instruments at the bottom of the left stack.

I also put my 430W in the left stack.  For IFR purposes, I believe where you have it, it will be out side of the 'legal' viewing area.  True the AFS will be your primary ADI/HSI but I still like it in my cross check.

My left stack is from top to bottom annunciator lights, AP, 430W and BU instruments.



Also, I am finishing up my wiring and if you can I sure would consider a 4500 on the left side.  But you need to include it in your construction before you cut the panel.  Also, you will need to increase the clearance on the rib by at least a half inch over a 3500.



My .2 cents worth.

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

Give me a call to chat about this.  I am in the process of putting a  

panel very much like this together.



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:44 PM, "Michael Wellenzohn"  

<rv-10(at)wellenzohn.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Hi,

 this is my desired panel layout. I would appreciate your feedback.



 Best

 Michael



 --------

 RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing)

 #511





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5119#205119





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/ynn_v14_165.jpg

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

-Unless you fly regularly with a co-pilot, you may want to consider putting the AFS3500s next to each other and the VP-200 on the right.  You would have the reverisionay mode in case a display falis and or moving map if you get that option right in fron of you.

-The GTX-327 transponder is not that deep, however the GTX-330 and it's European equivalent, the GTX-328 is very deep (28.6 cm) and will require that you cut through the secondary panel.  At the bottom of the stack, cutting through the secondary panel will provide little if any room for reinforcement.  This is the primary reason I placed my transponder further up the stack.

William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

Feedback that might be helpful to everybody online is regarding the  

VP-200.  My recommendation is to have the switch panel right by the  

PFD, so right below your left AFS screen.  You can fit it there even  

if you have the 4500.  Also, even if you plan to start with the 3500,  

I would get a 4500 tray and adapter plate to mount the 3500 so it will  

be a slide-in upgrade to go to the 4500.  I've done this and it works  

great.



Next, on the VP-200 Display Unit, that does not need to be as close to  

the pilot's hands as you have it.  It's a great reference item, but  

you really spend very little time with your hands on it.  In my  

experience you will spend a lot more time with you hands on the 430  

and maybe the backup COM than you will with the VP Screen.  Once you  

get it setup, you hardly ever have to mess with it, which is one of  

the reasons VP is a great way to go for anybody.  You will also now  

have a dedicated Engine Monitor display, so you can use all of your  

screen real estate for EFIS, Map and HSI.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:44 PM, Michael Wellenzohn wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Hi,

 this is my desired panel layout. I would appreciate your feedback.



 Best

 Michael



 --------

 RV-10 builder (engine, prop, finishing)

 #511





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5119#205119





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/ynn_v14_165.jpg

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

Hi Michael



You avionics selection matches mine exactly except that I am using the VP100

so as to save panel space.



I do not have any steam gauges as I plan to put my AFS4500's side by side.

They will have dual AHRS and battery back ups so I will have complete EFIS

redundancy. I don't think steam gauges will do anything for me. Besides, as

I am using an Eggenfelllner Subaru, I don't have a vacuum pump.



I suggest you print off a full size version of your panel and tape it to

your panel. Sit in your fuse and see how things look when actually sitting

in the fuse. I have gone through a dozen iterations of my panel before

landing on something that made sense to me. 



You may want to look at the Accuracy Avionics panel or the Stein panel that

allows the stack to be canted towards you. Although Accuracy has gone tango

uniform, you can still get the fibreglass from Tony Sustare.



Cheers



Les Kearney



--

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

Michael



Another thing to consider - you may want to have some annuciator lights that

will indicate that there is a MASTER ALARM or perhaps a door ajar. Mind you

if the door is ajar in flight, then its immediate departure will likely be

warning enough <vbg>.



Seriously though, if the VP200 is moved out of your normal field of vision,

a MASTER caution located above the AFS 3500 will tell you scan everything

RIGHT NOW!



Cheers



Les



--

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

I thought about the option of putting in the trays for the 4500 but consider this;  A 3400 has the same screen size and resolution as 4500 and according to AFS, an upgraded 3400 will be functionally equivalent to a 4500 with the exception of front mounting.  The only thing you will not get with an upgraded 3400 is the form factor and front mounting.  The 3400 form factor has certain benefits over the 4500 form factor.  With the 3400 form factor you can place the units closer together than the 4500.  With a 3400, you have less panel material to remove, this can be important as you push the screens further to the edge of the panel in order to make them fit.  So if front panel mounting is not important to you, get the 3400 and then upgrade the same units when you are ready.



William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



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jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

Wow great panel lay out that is exactly what I was looking for can you send

me a complete equipment list you are planning on.



Thanks 



John G. Cumins

President

 

JC'S Interactive Systems

2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94533

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

Remarkably well designed and laid out.  



I am placing the VP-Switch panel in the overhead as part of the air

plenum construction.  Les had an excellent recommendation on the Warning

and Caution light strip at the top of the instrument panel.  Of course

the "Bitching Betty" feature on the AFS makes for a remarkable choice of

product.



You're doing a great job and I'm looking forward to its flight and the

news of the accomplishment.



John Cox

#600



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

You mean 3500, not 3400.  The latter is the 6.4".  There are a lot of  

differences including 2 knobs, joysticks, better screen, faster  

processor allowing for synthetic vision, front mount is a huge plus.   

Olnly drawback is that it takes up more space.  Forward planning for  

4500 upgrade is wise, IMHO, and using the adapter for a 3500 makes it  

front mount.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



On Sep 19, 2008, at 7:34 PM, "William Curtis" <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com>  

wrote:



[quote] 



 I thought about the option of putting in the trays for the 4500 but  

 consider this;  A 3400 has the same screen size and resolution as  

 4500 and according to AFS, an upgraded 3400 will be functionally  

 equivalent to a 4500 with the exception of front mounting.  The only  

 thing you will not get with an upgraded 3400 is the form factor and  

 front mounting.  The 3400 form factor has certain benefits over the  

 4500 form factor.  With the 3400 form factor you can place the units  

 closer together than the 4500.  With a 3400, you have less panel  

 material to remove, this can be important as you push the screens  

 further to the edge of the panel in order to make them fit.  So if  

 front panel mounting is not important to you, get the 3400 and then  

 upgrade the same units when you are ready.



 William

 http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/



 ------

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

Yup, I meant 3500.  As I understand it, according to AFS, when the 3500 is upgraded, you get all those features (processor, knobs, joystick, e tc.) in the same chassis.  I guess if you planned to remove it frequently, front mounting would be a plus, but I would rather have the smaller frame.  If Rob is listening he can confirm this.



William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



------

Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

Michael,



You might consider swapping your left and right stacks.  I find I spend a

lot of time fiddling with my audio panel, 530, and autopilot, so I put them

closer.  My transponder and SL30 are in the same position you're showing in

the picture and sometimes I wish the nav/com was closer.



The AFS autopilot control might help with that one, but I would vote to put

the 430 and audio panel closer.



I think there's a picture of my panel (single 3400) on the AFS web site.



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 

831-722-9141

831-750-0284 CL

www.AirCraftersLLC.com



--

Mike Whisky

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 336
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Feedback wanted

Thank you all your valuable Feedback. 

I plan to post two more versions with some of your suggestions baked in.

I will try out to swap the vp-200 and the garmin stack. I will however keep one AFS-3500 for the copilot. The challenge will be to make it fit within the original panel size including the lower bar.

What is the required edge distance to the glare shield for the AFS-3500?

Best regards

Michael

_________________
RV-10 builder (flying)
#511

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Feedback wanted

Michael



Here is a link to the AFS3500 panel cutout: http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AF-3000support/AF-3400%20Dimensions.pdf



Here is a link to the AFS4500 panel cutout: http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/Support/AdvancedDeckSupport/ADVANCED%20deck%20AF-4500%20Install%20R1.pdf



I also suggest you place your switches and other miscellaneous bits and bobs on your drawing so you get a sense of the overall effect.



Also consider what will go behind the panel and sub panel and where as well as how you will access things after it is all installed. Installation is one thing, maintainability is another - that thought is courtesy of John Cox.



Cheers



Les

coop85(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: Feedback wanted

Michael,

   Lots of discussion on some displays, but one thing to consider is the

items you have running on the bottom of the panel.  It looks like several

(backup instruments, XPDR, etc) will extend slightly below the main panel

and into the permanent cross bar.  Anything is doable, but it might cause

some installation and aesthetic issues.  Overall great looking panel though.



I would also mimic the comment about through your switches and CBs (if any)

on the design.  It's amazing how many you could end up having and how much

real estate they take up.  Having them in a location and order that makes

sense to you will pay huge dividends.  I used the colored switch covers to

make it easy to tell what's what without looking too hard (red for electric

stuff (alt, bat), blue for fuel, yellow for pitot heat, green for the stuff

that cost a lot (avionics)).



Marcus

Do not archive



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: Feedback wanted

With the VP there is not much need for switches and no need for CBs.   

You'll have a few switches, but not many.  Also, you can get a remote  

CO monitor with serial output into the AFS.



Where are you putting the VP CU?



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



On Sep 20, 2008, at 9:46 AM, "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)cableone.net>  

wrote:



[quote] 



 Michael,

   Lots of discussion on some displays, but one thing to consider is  

 the

 items you have running on the bottom of the panel.  It looks like  

 several

 (backup instruments, XPDR, etc) will extend slightly below the main  

 panel

 and into the permanent cross bar.  Anything is doable, but it might  

 cause

 some installation and aesthetic issues.  Overall great looking panel  

 though.



 I would also mimic the comment about through your switches and CBs  

 (if any)

 on the design.  It's amazing how many you could end up having and  

 how much

 real estate they take up.  Having them in a location and order that  

 makes

 sense to you will pay huge dividends.  I used the colored switch  

 covers to

 make it easy to tell what's what without looking too hard (red for  

 electric

 stuff (alt, bat), blue for fuel, yellow for pitot heat, green for  

 the stuff

 that cost a lot (avionics)).



 Marcus

 Do not archive



 --

lbgjb10

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 67

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Feedback wanted

Initially I liked the thought of symmetry--main units centered over 'eyes' of pilot/copilot.  BUT decided (with help!!) on shifting left towards pilot.  Dual 3500's set up for 4500s, 530w,sl30,330.trutrak between the 2 screens.  By having the second screen closer it is easily visible and useable.  Turns out you do use the 430/530 and autopilot a LOT and I would want them in my easy sight and easy use without having to lean at all.  It would be nice to have emergency backup instruments where you have them but they may not fit there, and I would set up panel for everyday work and use.  The RV10 panel is wide and to reach over to the far right knob on the Right EFIS is a reach on your panel.  I would think that you are going to use the 430/autopilot and the other EFIS more often in flight than the 'centered' engine monitoring unit you show.  Just my thoughts after using the units in flight.  If it's hard to use or you can't see it easy you won't use it.   NOTE--asked my copilot to look at your panel, and with no prompting, she said that the right EFIS is too far to right, and radios need to be closer!!!! and she's not even brainwashed!!!   happy building/flying.  larry & gayle

_________________
Larry and Gayle N104LG

KiloPapa

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Pearblossom, CA

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

William,



What do you mean by "upgraded" 3400?  Also, could not find reference to a 

4500.  Is this what they call the Advanced Deck?



Kevin

40494



do not archive

---

_________________
Kevin
40494

do not archive

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Feedback wanted

That should be "upgraded 3500" as noted previously.  AFS has stated that the 3500 will be upgradable to the full capabilities of the Advanced Deck(4500)--that is faster CPU, additional memory and additional knob/joystick.



William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



------

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