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lamprey(at)infocom.co.ug
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Of course there are many...   the U2...  the wonderful Fournier series, RF3, 4, and 5...  the Schleiker K14  motorglider

  

 Happy flying to all

  

 Richard, in Kenya

 Monowheel , no 168, 912UL, warpdrive at 17 degrees,  operating from hot and high 6000', 27 C, and it does need rather a long take off  roll.

   [quote][b]

jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Harrier ?



Sent from my iPhone



On 24 Sep 2008, at 09:31, "Richard Lamprey" <lamprey(at)infocom.co.ug (lamprey(at)infocom.co.ug)> wrote:



[quote]  Of course there are many...   the U2...  the wonderful Fournier series, RF3, 4, and 5...  the Schleiker K14  motorglider

  

 Happy flying to all

  

 Richard, in Kenya

 Monowheel , no 168, 912UL, warpdrive at 17 degrees,  operating from hot and high 6000', 27 C, and it does need rather a long take off  roll.

    	  Quote: 	
		  



	


[b]

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as  follows:

  

 Schleiker K14............is a motor  glider

 Glassflugel...............is a glider

 Schempp Hirth............is a glider

 DG Flugzeughbau...........is a glider

 SZD...........is a glider

 U2..........I was unable to determine if it was a  monowheel or not

 ASW.........I was unable to determine what it  was

  

 The only real airplane I've found is the Fournier  RF 3,4,5, etc.

  

 Garry

  

 [quote]   ---

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Garry



The Monowheel is an Europa term for the bicycle landing gear, also known as centerline landing gear.  The main gear are fore/aft and centered on the fuselage.  Most require some sort of outrigger to maintain balance.  



The Lockheed U-2/TR-1, McDonnell Douglas AV-8B Harrier II and Hawker Harrier are current "real" airplanes with centerline landing gear and are not motor gliders.



Older designs are the B-47 & XB-48.  The B-52 is an extreme example with its quadracycle landing gear and outriggers.



Check six,

Bob Borger

On Wednesday, September 24, 2008, at 12:26PM, "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

[quote]Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as follows:



Schleiker K14............is a motor glider

Glassflugel...............is a glider

Schempp Hirth............is a glider

DG Flugzeughbau...........is a glider

SZD...........is a glider

U2..........I was unable to determine if it was a monowheel or not

ASW.........I was unable to determine what it was



The only real airplane I've found is the Fournier RF 3,4,5, etc.



Garry



  ---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Garry wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as follows:

  

 Schleiker K14............is a motor glider

 Glassflugel...............is a glider

 Schempp Hirth............is a glider

 DG Flugzeughbau...........is a glider

 SZD...........is a glider

 U2..........I was unable to determine if it was a monowheel or not

 ASW.........I was unable to determine what it was

  

 The only real airplane I've found is the Fournier RF 3,4,5, etc.

  

 Garry

U2 is definitely a monowheel/taildragger
	


Harrier is a  monowheel nose dragger

btw most gliders are very real airplanes, many of them will cruise cross 

country faster than a C152 as long as the sun shines

far too many "real??" airplanes have too much built in headwind.

btw 2. the mind is like a parachute, if it ain't open it's no use

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:16 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

 Graham C

 I think what Garry meant was that no aircraft designer in the fields of GA and commercial aviation would dream of recommending a monowheel setup like the Europa for a factory built aircraft.

 You are throwing in all these other types for comparison. None compare. The military planes were for highly specialized tasks C flown by very professional pilots off very large large military fields. They are all jet powered C hence no danger of a prop strike. The Harrier has other means of very precise directional control near the ground.They were all designed many decades ago

 Gliders and motorgliders all have very benign ground handling characteristics C and are stearable with the rudder down to very low speeds. On takeoff the towplane or winch provide additional directional control. I believe that the Europa monowheel is only really safe in the hands of a high time glider pilot.

 And safety is really the bottom line in this argument. let the statistics speak for themselves.

 The performance claims for the monowheel are also just so much gobbledigook. There are some trigears that outperform most monowheels. 

 The original concept of being able to land on any farm field etc. is also out of dreamland. Why do monowheel pilots shy away from short grass fields ? Because a full flap and high aoa takeoff is the last thing you want for a short field takeoff from a bumpy grass field.

 I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports.

 Lastly C there are very few alternatives to the trigear. I can only think of the Remos C with folding wings and a clamshell trailer. But that is in a different price range.

 Karl

<html><div></div></html>

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Thu C 25 Sep 2008 00:52:36 +0100

 From: grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>

 Garry wrote:

 > Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as follows:

 > 

 > Schleiker K14............is a motor glider

 > Glassflugel...............is a glider

 > Schempp Hirth............is a glider

 > DG Flugzeughbau..........is a glider

 > SZD...........is a glider

 > U2..........I was unable to determine if it was a monowheel or not

 > ASW.........I was unable to determine what it was

 > 

 > The only real airplane I've found is the Fournier RF 3 C4 C5 C etc.

 > 

 > Garry

 U2 is definitely a monowheel/taildragger

 Harrier is a monowheel nose dragger

 btw most gliders are very real airplanes C many of them will cruise cross 

 country faster than a C152 as long as the sun shines

 far too many "real??" airplanes have too much built in headwind.

 btw 2. the mind is like a parachute C if it ain't open i======================

&gt=====================

 	  Quote: 	

  [quote][b]

europaflyer_3(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Karl,  

You say: “I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports.” I guess you’re in the US, then? The rest of the world does things rather differently... hence many of your assumptions are, I’m afraid, incorrect.  

I am just one example of someone building a monowheel to operate with higher performance out of a short, bumpy grass field. There are many like me!  

Regards,  

Jeremy  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl

 Sent: 25 September 2008 13:15

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Monowheel designs... any others out there?  

 Graham,

 I think what Garry meant was that no aircraft designer in the fields of GA and commercial aviation would dream of recommending a monowheel setup like the Europa for a factory built aircraft.

 You are throwing in all these other types for comparison. None compare. The military planes were for highly specialized tasks, flown by very professional pilots off very large large military fields. They are all jet powered, hence no danger of a prop strike. The Harrier has other means of very precise directional control near the ground.They were all designed many decades ago

 Gliders and motorgliders all have very benign ground handling characteristics, and are stearable with the rudder down to very low speeds. On takeoff the towplane or winch provide additional directional control. I believe that the Europa monowheel is only really safe in the hands of a high time glider pilot.

 And safety is really the bottom line in this argument. let the statistics speak for themselves.

 The performance claims for the monowheel are also just so much gobbledigook. There are some trigears that outperform most monowheels. 

 The original concept of being able to land on any farm field etc. is also out of dreamland. Why do monowheel pilots shy away from short grass fields ? Because a full flap and high aoa takeoff is the last thing you want for a short field takeoff from a bumpy grass field.

 I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports.

 Lastly, there are very few alternatives to the trigear. I can only think of the Remos, with folding wings and a clamshell trailer. But that is in a different price range.

 Karl

 <html><div></div></html>

 > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:52:36 +0100

 > From: grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com

 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 > Subject: Re: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

 > 

 > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>

 > 

 > Garry wrote:

 > > Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as follows:

 > > 

 > > Schleiker K14............is a motor glider

 > > Glassflugel...............is a glider

 > > Schempp Hirth............is a glider

 > > DG Flugzeughbau...........is a glider

 > > SZD...........is a glider

 > > U2..........I was unable to determine if it was a monowheel or not

 > > ASW.........I was unable to determine what it was

 > > 

 > > The only real airplane I've found is the Fournier RF 3,4,5, etc.

 > > 

 > > Garry

 > U2 is definitely a monowheel/taildragger

 > Harrier is a monowheel nose dragger

 > btw most gliders are very real airplanes, many of them will cruise cross 

 > country faster than a C152 as long as the sun shines

 > far too many "real??" airplanes have too much built in headwind.

 > btw 2. the mind is like a parachute, if it ain't open i======================

 >=====================

 > 

 > 

 >    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
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rick(at)amimotormanagemen
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Just as a matter of interest could I  turn a Mono on my short, very bumpy, grass strip (max 20' wide with no  turning area) after backtracking in a strong wind.  I sometimes have  trouble with my trike using full braking on one wheel!   

 Cheers

 Rick

 G-RIKS 912S  Trike

   From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy  Davey

Sent: 25 September 2008 15:36

To:  europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Monowheel  designs... any others out there?

Karl, 

You  say: “I  think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports.” I  guess you’re in the US, then? The rest of the world does things rather  differently... hence many of your assumptions are, I’m afraid,  incorrect. 

I  am just one example of someone building a monowheel to operate with higher  performance out of a short, bumpy grass field. There are many like  me! 

Regards, 

Jeremy 

From:  owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl  Heindl

Sent: 25 September 2008 13:15

To:  europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Monowheel  designs... any others out there?

Graham,

I  think what Garry meant was that no aircraft designer in the fields of GA and  commercial aviation would dream of recommending a monowheel setup like the  Europa for a factory built aircraft.

You are throwing in all these other  types for comparison. None compare. The military planes were for highly  specialized tasks, flown by very professional pilots off very large large  military fields. They are all jet powered, hence no danger of a prop strike. The  Harrier has other means of very precise directional control near the ground.They  were all designed many decades ago

Gliders and motorgliders all have very  benign ground handling characteristics, and are stearable with the rudder down  to very low speeds. On takeoff the towplane or winch provide additional  directional control. I believe that the Europa monowheel is only really safe in  the hands of a high time glider pilot.

And safety is really the bottom line  in this argument. let the statistics speak for themselves.

The  performance claims for the monowheel are also just so much gobbledigook. There  are some trigears that outperform most monowheels. 

The original concept of  being able to land on any farm field etc. is also out of dreamland. Why do  monowheel pilots shy away from short grass fields ? Because a full flap and high  aoa takeoff is the last thing you want for a short field takeoff from a bumpy  grass field.

I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved  airports.

Lastly, there are very few alternatives to the trigear. I can only  think of the Remos, with folding wings and a clamshell trailer. But that  is in a different price  range.

Karl

<html><div></div></html>

 	  Quote: 	
		    Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:52:36 +0100

 From:  grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

  Subject: Re: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton  <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>

 Garry wrote:

  > Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as follows:

 >  

 > Schleiker K14............is a motor glider

 >  Glassflugel...............is a glider

 > Schempp Hirth............is a  glider

 > DG Flugzeughbau...........is a glider

 >  SZD...........is a glider

 > U2..........I was unable to determine if  it was a monowheel or not

 > ASW.........I was unable to determine  what it was

 > 

 > The only real airplane I've found is the  Fournier RF 3,4,5, etc.

 > 

 > Garry

 U2 is  definitely a monowheel/taildragger

 Harrier is a monowheel nose  dragger

 btw most gliders are very real airplanes, many of them will  cruise cross 

 country faster than a C152 as long as the sun  shines

 far too many "real??" airplanes have too much built in  headwind.

 btw 2. the mind is like a parachute, if it ain't open  i======================

=====================

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		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
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0No virus found in this incoming message.  Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus  Database: 270.7.2/1690 - Release Date: 25/09/2008 07:05  

  Checked by AVG.

 25/09/2008 07:05

     [quote][b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Rick,



Sure, you just stop the engine, climb out, go around back, pick up the tail and walk it around.  Then you can get back in, restart the engine and taxi where necessary.



And I'm only being a bit facetious ;-}



Bob Borger

Europa XS Monowheel, Intercooled Rotax 914 & Airmaster C/S Prop.

99.9% complete.  Chasing gremlins in the radio.

 

On Thursday, September 25, 2008, at 10:11AM, "rick" <rick(at)amimotormanagement.co.uk> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Just as a matter of interest could I turn a Mono on my short, very bumpy,

grass strip (max 20' wide with no turning area) after backtracking in a

strong wind.  I sometimes have trouble with my trike using full braking on

one wheel!  

 

Cheers

 

Rick

 

G-RIKS 912S Trike

wooburnaviation(at)google
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

I'm with Jeremy on this one.  I've flown both, and the mono is superior to the trike out of bumpy grass strips, of which we have several up here in Scotland.  And in fact my old home field of White Waltham could also be described as such !

 2008/9/25 Jeremy Davey <europaflyer_3(at)msn.com (europaflyer_3(at)msn.com)>

 [quote]   

Karl, 

You say: "I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports." I guess you're in the US, then? The rest of the world does things rather differently... hence many of your assumptions are, I'm afraid, incorrect.  

I am just one example of someone building a monowheel to operate with higher performance out of a short, bumpy grass field. There are many like me! 

Regards, 

Jeremy 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl

 Sent: 25 September 2008 13:15

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Monowheel designs... any others out there? 

Graham,

I think what Garry meant was that no aircraft designer in the fields of GA and commercial aviation would dream of recommending a monowheel setup like the Europa for a factory built aircraft.

 You are throwing in all these other types for comparison. None compare. The military planes were for highly specialized tasks, flown by very professional pilots off very large large military fields. They are all jet powered, hence no danger of a prop strike. The Harrier has other means of very precise directional control near the ground.They were all designed many decades ago

 Gliders and motorgliders all have very benign ground handling characteristics, and are stearable with the rudder down to very low speeds. On takeoff the towplane or winch provide additional directional control. I believe that the Europa monowheel is only really safe in the hands of a high time glider pilot.

 And safety is really the bottom line in this argument. let the statistics speak for themselves.

The performance claims for the monowheel are also just so much gobbledigook. There are some trigears that outperform most monowheels. 

 The original concept of being able to land on any farm field etc. is also out of dreamland. Why do monowheel pilots shy away from short grass fields ? Because a full flap and high aoa takeoff is the last thing you want for a short field takeoff from a bumpy grass field.

 I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports.

Lastly, there are very few alternatives to the trigear. I can only think of the Remos, with folding wings and a clamshell trailer. But that is in a different price range.

Karl

<html><div></div></html>

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:52:36 +0100

 From: grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)

 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)>

 > 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Garry wrote:

 > Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as follows:

 > 

 > Schleiker K14............is a motor glider

 > Glassflugel...............is a glider

 > > Schempp Hirth............is a glider

 	  Quote: 	
		   > DG Flugzeughbau...........is a glider

 > SZD...........is a glider

 > U2..........I was unable to determine if it was a monowheel or not

 > ASW.........I was unable to determine what it was

 > > 

 	  Quote: 	
		   > The only real airplane I've found is the Fournier RF 3,4,5, etc.

 > 

 > Garry

 U2 is definitely a monowheel/taildragger

 Harrier is a monowheel nose dragger

 > btw most gliders are very real airplanes, many of them will cruise cross 

 	  Quote: 	
		   country faster than a C152 as long as the sun shines

 far too many "real??" airplanes have too much built in headwind.

 > btw 2. the mind is like a parachute, if it ain't open i======================

 	  Quote: 	
		  =====================

  	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
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[b]

houlihan(at)blueyonder.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Karl.  

I have rarely read so much incorrect and misleading information in one email on the forum.  

I and lots of other owners I know operate our monowheel Europa’s out of grass strips in farmers fields.  

I could list the other comments that are without foundation but just for one I would like to know of a trigear that will outperform a similarly equipped monowheel. Most trigears have the more powerful engine options ! and almost always use more litres per hour than I get.  

 I do agree that Europa trigears are very nice aeroplanes and their owners should be very proud of them.  

Tim   

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl

 Sent: 25 September 2008 13:15

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel designs... any others out there?  

 Graham,

 I think what Garry meant was that no aircraft designer in the fields of GA and commercial aviation would dream of recommending a monowheel setup like the Europa for a factory built aircraft.

 You are throwing in all these other types for comparison. None compare. The military planes were for highly specialized tasks, flown by very professional pilots off very large large military fields. They are all jet powered, hence no danger of a prop strike. The Harrier has other means of very precise directional control near the ground.They were all designed many decades ago

 Gliders and motorgliders all have very benign ground handling characteristics, and are stearable with the rudder down to very low speeds. On takeoff the towplane or winch provide additional directional control. I believe that the Europa monowheel is only really safe in the hands of a high time glider pilot.

 And safety is really the bottom line in this argument. let the statistics speak for themselves.

 The performance claims for the monowheel are also just so much gobbledigook. There are some trigears that outperform most monowheels. 

 The original concept of being able to land on any farm field etc. is also out of dreamland. Why do monowheel pilots shy away from short grass fields ? Because a full flap and high aoa takeoff is the last thing you want for a short field takeoff from a bumpy grass field.

 I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports.

 Lastly, there are very few alternatives to the trigear. I can only think of the Remos, with folding wings and a clamshell trailer. But that is in a different price range.

 Karl

 <html><div></div></html>

 > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:52:36 +0100

 > From: grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com

 > To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 > Subject: Re: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

 > 

 > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>

 > 

 > Garry wrote:

 > > Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as follows:

 > > 

 > > Schleiker K14............is a motor glider

 > > Glassflugel...............is a glider

 > > Schempp Hirth............is a glider

 > > DG Flugzeughbau...........is a glider

 > > SZD...........is a glider

 > > U2..........I was unable to determine if it was a monowheel or not

 > > ASW.........I was unable to determine what it was

 > > 

 > > The only real airplane I've found is the Fournier RF 3,4,5, etc.

 > > 

 > > Garry

 > U2 is definitely a monowheel/taildragger

 > Harrier is a monowheel nose dragger

 > btw most gliders are very real airplanes, many of them will cruise cross 

 > country faster than a C152 as long as the sun shines

 > far too many "real??" airplanes have too much built in headwind.

 > btw 2. the mind is like a parachute, if it ain't open i======================

 >=====================

 > 

 > 

 >    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
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9

     No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com  270.7.1/1688 - Release Date: 9/24/2008 6:29 AM   [quote][b]

rick(at)amimotormanagemen
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

What at my age!  Besides I might get my feet wet.



Pussy Morris



G-RIKS



--

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Puss,



I guess that little kids like me (I'm only 62) have to be considerate of you elderly gents :^)



Bob

 

On Thursday, September 25, 2008, at 11:32AM, "rick" <rick(at)amimotormanagement.co.uk> wrote:

[quote]



What at my age!  Besides I might get my feet wet.



Pussy Morris



G-RIKS



--

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

On Thursday, Sep 25, 2008, at 08:11 US/Pacific, rick wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Just as a matter of interest could I turn a Mono on my short, very 

 bumpy, grass strip (max 20' wide with no turning area) after 

 backtracking in a strong wind.  I sometimes have trouble with my trike 

 using full braking on one wheel! 


	


!!...touche'...that needle do twist nicely...ouch...always nice to 

recognise the depth of our commitment to our respective 

decisions...pity we tend to cloak ourselves in claims of rationality 

for what is, IMO, an essentially irrational enterprise...but I love 

this thread which again, IMO, celebrates the extreme flexibility of a 

wonderful airframe which sees such variety (mono, trigear, conventional 

taildragger, short wings/long wings, Rotax, Soobs, Jabs, CAM/Honda, 

Smart Brabus, O-200, and what next?)



Fred

A194



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kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Jeremy C

 I guess I was jumping to conclusions about the grass strips. I am based at a grass strip in Canada C but you are right about the US. I don't think that there is a single grass strip at an airport financed by public funds.

 Also C some monos will of course outperform all trigears by a small amount. But what does it all matter anyway C so long as we are all having fun.

 Karl

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 From: europaflyer_3(at)msn.com

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Date: Thu C 25 Sep 2008 15:36:27 +0100

   .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal C .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal C .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman' C'serif';} .ExternalClass a:link C .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited C .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass p {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman' C'serif';} .ExternalClass pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} .ExternalClass span.EC_HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;} .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle20 {font-family:'Calibri' C'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} .ExternalClass .EC_MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} (at)page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;}     

Karl C 

You say: “I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports.” I guess you’re in the US C then? The rest of the world does things rather differently... hence many of your assumptions are C I’m afraid C incorrect. 

I am just one example of someone building a monowheel to operate with higher performance out of a short C bumpy grass field. There are many like me! 

Regards C 

Jeremy 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl

Sent: 25 September 2008 13:15

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Graham C

I think what Garry meant was that no aircraft designer in the fields of GA and commercial aviation would dream of recommending a monowheel setup like the Europa for a factory built aircraft.

You are throwing in all these other types for comparison. None compare. The military planes were for highly specialized tasks C flown by very professional pilots off very large large military fields. They are all jet powered C hence no danger of a prop strike. The Harrier has other means of very precise directional control near the ground.They were all designed many decades ago

Gliders and motorgliders all have very benign ground handling characteristics C and are stearable with the rudder down to very low speeds. On takeoff the towplane or winch provide additional directional control. I believe that the Europa monowheel is only really safe in the hands of a high time glider pilot.

And safety is really the bottom line in this argument. let the statistics speak for themselves.

The performance claims for the monowheel are also just so much gobbledigook. There are some trigears that outperform most monowheels. 

The original concept of being able to land on any farm field etc. is also out of dreamland. Why do monowheel pilots shy away from short grass fields ? Because a full flap and high aoa takeoff is the last thing you want for a short field takeoff from a bumpy grass field.

I think that almost all Europas are operating out of paved airports.

Lastly C there are very few alternatives to the trigear. I can only think of the Remos C with folding wings and a clamshell trailer. But that is in a different price range.

Karl

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[quote] Date: Thu C 25 Sep 2008 00:52:36 +0100

 From: grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>

 Garry wrote:

 > Examples of monowheel designs have been proposed as follows:

 > 

 > Schleiker K14............is a motor glider

 > Glassflugel...............is a glider

 > Schempp Hirth............is a glider

 > DG Flugzeughbau...........is a glider

 > SZD...........is a glider

 > U2..........I was unable to determine if it was a monowheel or not

 > ASW.........I was unable to determine what it was

 > 

 > The only real airplane I've found is the Fournier RF 3 C4 C5 C etc.

 > 

 > Garry

 U2 is definitely a monowheel/taildragger

 Harrier is a monowheel nose dragger

 btw most gliders are very real airplanes C many of them will cruise cross 

 country faster than a C152 as long as the sun shines

 far too many "real??" airplanes have too much built in headwind.

 btw 2. the mind is like a parachute C if it ain't open i======================

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Bob,



Typical mono´s tailwheel weight is around 35 kgs = 77 lbs.

So picking it up is possible for quite a strong person but

I do not recommend it because there is a risk to hurt your back

or plane´s rudder etc.



More sophisticated way is to use lightweight pushable/pullable towbar.

Even a rope is ok but you cannot push w it.



Raimo w Mono



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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Raimo,



I just did the weight and balance on my Europa last weekend.  78 lbs on my tailwheel.  I lifted it off the floor onto the box holding the scale to make it level.  I often lift the tail slightly to swing it around when my tow strap won't cooperate. It's not that difficult to lift.



Having said that, I plan to make up a tail towbar as soon as possible.  It should make moving the aircraft much easier than the tow strap I currently use to drag the aircraft back into the hanger.



Bob

 

On Thursday, September 25, 2008, at 01:33PM, "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi> wrote:

[quote]Bob,



Typical mono´s tailwheel weight is around 35 kgs = 77 lbs.

So picking it up is possible for quite a strong person but

I do not recommend it because there is a risk to hurt your back

or plane´s rudder etc.



More sophisticated way is to use lightweight pushable/pullable towbar.

Even a rope is ok but you cannot push w it.



Raimo w Mono



---

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

I remember hearing from somewhere  you could force a monowheel to turn

sharper than its planted tailwheel turning radius. It was probably

something like a mini groundloop where you would add a bit of power and

perhaps release some back pressure and skid the tailwheel around a bit??



Does anyone practice this? With an XS? On pavement or only grass? 



Good results?



Are risks worth it? Like for instance if outrigger collapsed you may be

doing a lot more repair than painting a scuff? Or??



Ron Parigoris

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Bob,

I put my back out doing exactly that. Long recovery. Watch out.

Tim

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton,

Christchurch

NEW ZEALAND

PH 0064 3 3515166

MOB 021 0640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: Monowheel designs... any others out there?

Bob, be carefull!

Believe me, there are risks to lift it (ask your doctor)!



Raimo

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