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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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 Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:27 am Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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Wayne (and Doug),
Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual.
I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar.
Blue Skies,
Buz
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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM writes:
| Quote: | Wayne (and Doug),
Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual.
I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar.
Blue Skies,
Buz
|
Dont have test data....for several reasons.
Ryan can get you that as more time progresses.
We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary.
doug
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
[quote][b]
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info(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:08 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips
In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM writes:
| Quote: |
Wayne (and Doug),
Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual.
I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar.
Blue Skies,
Buz
|
Dont have test data....for several reasons.
Ryan can get you that as more time progresses.
We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary.
doug
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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info(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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Preliminary observation that with time and testing will show good results?
Nick
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:08 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips
In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM writes:
| Quote: |
Wayne (and Doug),
Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual.
I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar.
Blue Skies,
Buz
|
Dont have test data....for several reasons.
Ryan can get you that as more time progresses.
We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary.
doug
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Wayne Lenox
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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Rotate
Vr
50
Normal Climb Out
Vclmb
75-85
Best angle climb
(Sea Level)
Vx
65
Best rate climb
(Sea Level)
Vy
100
Maneuvering
Va
124
Flaps 10° -40°
Vfe
<87
Normal max
Vno
138
Never exceed
Vne
208
Stall (clean)
Vs
49
Stall (land) Flaps 30°
Vso
41
Final Approach
Flaps 30°
60
No flaps
70
Max Glide
75
This is the chart that I made up for N123WL. However I have found it easer to use 40° flaps and 55 MPH short final approach speed for landing. Your speeds may very!!
Wayne
N123WL
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:08 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips
In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM writes:
| Quote: |
Wayne (and Doug),
Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual.
I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar.
Blue Skies,
Buz
|
Dont have test data....for several reasons.
Ryan can get you that as more time progresses.
We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary.
doug
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
====================================
ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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info(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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Great numbers wayne, just the info we need to see. They look right in line with what we are seeing. I think weather permitting Mark and your bird our going to make and appearance at the open house on Saturday?
nick
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Lenox
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:30 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips
Rotate
Vr
50
Normal Climb Out
Vclmb
75-85
Best angle climb
(Sea Level)
Vx
65
Best rate climb
(Sea Level)
Vy
100
Maneuvering
Va
124
Flaps 10° -40°
Vfe
<87
Normal max
Vno
138
Never exceed
Vne
208
Stall (clean)
Vs
49
Stall (land) Flaps 30°
Vso
41
Final Approach
Flaps 30°
60
No flaps
70
Max Glide
75
This is the chart that I made up for N123WL. However I have found it easer to use 40° flaps and 55 MPH short final approach speed for landing. Your speeds may very!!
Wayne
N123WL
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:08 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Flying the new tips
In a message dated 9/26/2008 7:28:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM writes:
| Quote: |
Wayne (and Doug),
Since you have completed phase 1 testing on N123WL, can you share some test data with us so we can compare what we got on the demo (and prototype). What numbers did you come up with for Vx, Vy, and Vbg (clean and with 30 degrees of flaps)? Also, Doug if you could get your customer to share the same data it would help the overall effort. The above numbers are what I have been working on for the past week or so. I hope to have them graphed out soon for the performance section of the demo's flight manual.
I am guessing that so far only about six people have flown the new tips. Nick, Katie and me here at SYI, Wayne, and probably Ryan and the Green Landing's customer. Nick, Katie and I all like them and the performance improvements they provide. The only down side that I can see is that it takes up slightly more room in your hangar.
Blue Skies,
Buz
|
Dont have test data....for several reasons.
Ryan can get you that as more time progresses.
We just dont have many hours on the new tips, the observations are preliminary.
doug
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ====================================ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List==================================== |
01234
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Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions. 56789 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:04:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info(at)flylightning.net writes:
| Quote: | | They look right in line with what we are seeing. |
Wayne,
Actually your Vx may be a typo (65) as we are getting a Vx of 87 after many timed climbs of one minute. When we graph out the numbers Vx is definitely 87. Vy is more like 93 instead of the 100 you are using and the best glide speed clean graphs out to 85, and 75 is best glide with 30 degree flaps.
Buz
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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I got a Vs of about 51 KCAS at max gross C and 36 KCAS for Vso C I also had around 72 KCAS for Vx and Vy of about 80 KCAS. I get about 75 KCAS for best glide clean. This was on the old white and yellow demo. If Buz is talking MPH then I think that we're spot on. I did tests at many airspeeds and altitudes C but I wished that I had've done more at even slower speeds. Brian W.
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Date: Fri C 26 Sep 2008 22:18:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Flying the new tips
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:04:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time C info(at)flylightning.net writes:
| Quote: | | They look right in line with what we are seeing. |
Wayne C
Actually your Vx may be a typo (65) as we are getting a Vx of 87 after many timed climbs of one minute. When we graph out the numbers Vx is definitely 87. Vy is more like 93 instead of the 100 you are using and the best glide speed clean graphs out to 85 C and 75 is best glide with 30 degree flaps.
Buz
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information C tips and calculators.
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st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. Learn Now [quote][b]
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Wayne Lenox
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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Buz
I just do not know what Vx is. I thought Vx was the speed I would use to clear a 50 ft Obstacle at the end of departure runway. I am sure you will enlighten me.
I just get a higher climb rate at or near 100 MPH. I will have another look when I get back in N123WL.
I tried different glide speeds and I think N123WL will travel farther at 75MPH with out power then at 85. It's more like a glider!!
Buz your knowledge as a test pilot for the Air Force, will give you a leg up on most of us normal everyday pilots. I thank you for helping, as I can sure use your help.
Wayne
N123WL
-- N1BZRich(at)aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:04:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info(at)flylightning.net writes:
| Quote: | | They look right in line with what we are seeing. |
Wayne,
Actually your Vx may be a typo (65) as we are getting a Vx of 87 after many timed climbs of one minute. When we graph out the numbers Vx is definitely 87. Vy is more like 93 instead of the 100 you are using and the best glide speed clean graphs out to 85, and 75 is best glide with 30 degree flaps.
Buz
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
| Quote: |
====================================
ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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www.matronics.com/contribution
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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Wayne C
If you take and graph airspeeds for different density altitudes then you will get a curve for each altitude. For each altitude you graph out your TAS vs. your density altitude. Now if you take from the 0 airspeed and altitude point and draw a straight line to the tangent of the curve made from your various airspeeds at that altitude will be your Vx. The top of the arc will be your Vy speed. Vx is the best angle of climb airspeed which means that it will get you over your 50 foot obstacle. I remember best ANGLE b/c X has more angles than the letter Y. If you look at any POH you'll find once you are clear of your 50 foot obstacle then you will soon transition to Vy which is your best rate of climb. You can also remember it as being Vx gives you the most altitude for a given distance while Vy is the most altitude for a given time (hence the name best rate). If you think about it logically and take those Vx and Vy's for various altitudes and plot them on the same chart you'll see that your Vx and Vy will change with density altitude. They're super important numbers to know and to truely understand this you have to understand the principles of power required C power available C and angle of attack. You can easily record these numbers based on the info above. Buz can probably add more. Brian W.
From: waynelenox(at)juno.com
Date: Sat C 27 Sep 2008 15:12:47 +0000
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Flying the new tips
Buz
I just do not know what Vx is. I thought Vx was the speed I would use to clear a 50 ft Obstacle at the end of departure runway. I am sure you will enlighten me.
I just get a higher climb rate at or near 100 MPH. I will have another look when I get back in N123WL.
I tried different glide speeds and I think N123WL will travel farther at 75MPH with out power then at 85. It's more like a glider!!
Buz your knowledge as a test pilot for the Air Force C will give you a leg up on most of us normal everyday pilots. I thank you for helping C as I can sure use your help.
Wayne
N123WL
-- N1BZRich(at)aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/26/2008 12:04:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time C info(at)flylightning.net writes:
| Quote: | | They look right in line with what we are seeing. |
Wayne C
Actually your Vx may be a typo (65) as we are getting a Vx of 87 after many timed climbs of one minute. When we graph out the numbers Vx is definitely 87. Vy is more like 93 instead of the 100 you are using and the best glide speed clean graphs out to 85 C and 75 is best glide with 30 degree flaps.
Buz
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Stay up to date on your PC C the Web C and ymsnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now [quote][b]
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: Flying the new tips |
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In a message dated 9/27/2008 11:15:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, waynelenox(at)juno.com writes:
| Quote: |
I thought Vx was the speed I would use to clear a 50 ft Obstacle at the end of departure runway. I am sure you will enlighten me. I just get a higher climb rate at or near 100 MPH. I will have another look when I get back in N123WL. I tried different glide speeds and I think N123WL will travel farther at 75MPH with out power then at 85. It's more like a glider!! |
Wayne,
Sorry to take so long to get back to you, but we were pretty busy at SYI and now that I am home I am graphing out all the performance data on the new wing tips and starting on the next Lightning newsletter.
You are absolutely right, Vx is the speed you would use to clear obstacles at the end of the runway and is your best angle of climb. And it is different from Vy which gives you the best climb rate. Basically, Vx works out to 87 mph and Vy is 93 mph with the new tips. As to best glide, our data for the new tips indicates that with flaps up you can go travel farther at 85 mph (2.5 miles per 1000 feet of altitude loss) than you can at any other speed. For flaps at 30 degrees you should fly 73 mph and that will get you 2.4 miles for each 1000 feet of altitude lost. However, if you are interested in just staying in the air, then slower is certainly better for max time airborn for each 1000 feet of altitude - get just above the stall for max loiter time. I will soon have all the data ready to publish and will post it on the list or in the newsletter soon.
Sorry you and Nell didn't get to make it to SYI this past weekend. We all had a great time.
Blue skies,
Buz
Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.
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