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Taxi controls with wind

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kuffel(at)cyberport.net
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Taxi controls with wind

<< I thought that the basic rule was `point the stick into wind`.

Not if you have a quartering tailwind... >>



What I teach which works for both stick and wheel controls is:



      "Climb toward, dive away"



Of course, if the wind is directly from one side then you are 

between climb and dive, ie neutral pitch and roll toward wind.



In the same vein, a direct wind means you are between toward and 

away (neutral roll) and pitch up for head wind, pitch down for 

tail wind.



Tom Kuffel, CFI

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: Taxi controls with wind

What I teach which works for both stick and wheel controls is:



      "Climb toward, dive away">>



Hi Tom,



I don`t think I am extraordinarily thick but I have no idea what that means. 

Does it mean that with the wind blowing on the nose you pull the stick back? 

That doesn`t make sense

Explain please

Cheers



Pat

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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: Taxi controls with wind

Pat, The idea is to keep the tail planted on the ground. Living on a grass strip in a place where the wind blows very hard sometimes, I get to see how this works simply by looking out the kitchen window. When the aircraft is pointed downwind, the rule is "dive away from the wind". 

If the wind is directly from behind, the ailerons are held in a neutral position (stick centered) and the elevator is held in the down position (stick forward).

 If the wind is quartering from the left side, say, the ailerons are held so the left aileron is down, and the elevator is still held down. The stick then is in the position that if the aircraft was flying, it would be in a diving turn to the right. Hence the memory aid, "dive away from the wind".

 When the aircraft is pointed upwind, the rule is "climb into the wind".

If the wind is from directly ahead, the ailerons are held in a neutral position (stick centered) and the elevator is held in the up position (stick back).

 If the wind is quartering form the left side, say, the ailerons are held so the left aileron is up, and the elevator is still held up. If the aircraft was flying it would be in a climbing turn to the left, hence, "climb into the wind".

 Another way to look at it is that when the aircraft is pointed downwind, the controls become simple reaction devices, i.e. the air hits the downward deflected surface and simply pushes the surface down. When the aircraft is pointed upwind, the controls work as they normally do, aerodynamically.

 Now you have to take the "climb into the wind" rule with a bit of historical perspective. It was formulated when almost all aircraft had the propeller on the nose and keeping the prop out of the dirt was the primary concern. With a Kolb, this is not the case. I find myself keeping the elevator in the down position in all wind orientations. My reasoning is that I'd much rather deal with a suddenly flying tail (when the wind is from the nose), than a flying, and stalled, wing. But that's another discussion.

 Hope this helps.

Rick 

do not archive

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 4:50 AM, pj.ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)>

  

 What I teach which works for both stick and wheel controls is:

 

      "Climb toward, dive away">>

 

 Hi Tom,

 

 I don`t think I am extraordinarily thick but I have no idea what that means. Does it mean that with the wind blowing on the nose you pull the stick back? That doesn`t make sense

 Explain please

 

 

 Cheers

 

 Pat

 

 

 

 

 

 [b]

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:21 am Post subject: Taxi controls with wind

Living on a grass

strip in a place where the  wind blows very hard sometimes,>>

  

 Hi Rick,

 thanks for the explanation. Sounds as if you taxy  around in winds that would keep me firmly in the hangar.

  

 I can see your logic but I am too old to unlearn  something which has worked all my flying life. I shall stick with `point the  stick into wind` and stay out of strong winds from the rear.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: Taxi controls with wind

Pat, I stay out of anything over 20 MPH, and luckily we haven't had those much this year. We did have one storm on March 2nd that was really impressive. The warning came in on the NOAA radio just two minutes before 70+ winds hit. The sliding glass door bulged inward so much I didn't think it could possibly hold so I closed the drapes to contain the wreckage. Fortunately it held and the hedge row upwind of the house deflected the worst of it. Love those Eastern Red Cedars. My neighbor's hangar didn't fare so well. The wall with the hangar door flexed inward so far that the door jumped its tracks and the wind took it and the corner of the building straight away and out into his yard. And these were winds that weren't even associated with a tornado, just an energetic frontal passage.

 Back to the airplane stuff. There was a fellow in a straight tailed 182 who failed to position his elevator correctly when making the transition from upwind to down. Maybe his thinking was that the upward deflected elevator would provide downward lift. In three oscillations he was near to losing control of the aircraft when he decided to change his thinking. The moment he pushed forward on the controls and the elevator went down the oscillations stopped. Best illustration of proper control positioning I've ever seen.

 



Rick

On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:21 AM, pj.ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		          Living on a grass

strip in a place where the  wind blows very hard sometimes,>>

  

 

Hi Rick,

 thanks for the explanation. Sounds as if you taxy  around in winds that would keep me firmly in the hangar.

  

 I can see your logic but I am too old to unlearn  something which has worked all my flying life. I shall stick with `point the  stick into wind` and stay out of strong winds from the rear.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

    [/b] 	




[b]

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dcreech3(at)hotmail.com
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: Taxi controls with wind

I've always relied on the memory shortcut "climb toward the wind C dive away from it."  This position of the stick results in the recommended elevator/aileron deflections for taxiing with the wind from any quarter. 

  

 Lee

 Firestar II

   

 Date: Tue C 30 Sep 2008 06:46:10 -0500

From: aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Taxi controls with wind

 Pat C I stay out of anything over 20 MPH C and luckily we haven't had those much this year.   We did have one storm on March 2nd that was really impressive. The warning came in on the NOAA radio just two minutes before 70+ winds hit. The sliding glass door bulged inward so much I didn't think it could possibly hold so I closed the drapes to contain the wreckage. Fortunately it held and the hedge row upwind of the house deflected the worst of it. Love those Eastern Red Cedars. My neighbor's hangar didn't fare so well. The wall with the hangar door flexed inward so far that the door jumped its tracks and the wind took it and the corner of the building straight away and out into his yard. And these were winds that weren't even associated with a tornado C just an energetic frontal passage.

 Back to the airplane stuff. There was a fellow in a straight tailed 182 who failed to position his elevator correctly when making the transition from upwind to down. Maybe his thinking was that the upward deflected elevator would provide downward lift. In three oscillations he was near to losing control of the aircraft when he decided to change his thinking. The moment he pushed forward on the controls and the elevator went down the oscillations stopped. Best illustration of proper control positioning I've ever seen.

 



 Rick

 



 On Tue C Sep 30 C 2008 at 6:21 AM C pj.ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Living on a grass

strip in a place where the wind blows very hard sometimes C>>

  



 Hi Rick C

 thanks for the explanation. Sounds as if you taxy around in winds that would keep me firmly in the hangar.

  

 I can see your logic but I am too old to unlearn something which has worked all my flying life. I shall stick with `point the stick into wind` and stay out of strong winds from the rear.

   

 Cheers

  

 Pat

[/b] 	  Quote: 	
		  	








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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: Taxi controls with wind

Pat, I stay out of anything over 20  MPH,>>

  

 Absolutely,

  

 i wouldn`t be averse to going out and struggle with  it if it was  trip which I  HAD to make.but I do this for fun and  quiet evenings after the thermals and hopefully, the wind have died away suits  me fine.

  

 In theory I would love to be flying to Alaska with  JH but in practice ...no..no...no...

  

 Luckily in the uk specifically in "Hereford and  Hampshire hurricanes hardly happen"  although we did have one a few years  ago presaged by a memorable met forecast on the BBC. A woman rang the BBC and  said that she had heard on French radio that there was about to be a hurricane.  The broadcaster assured her that this was completely wrong. There would be no  hurricane.

 About 4 hours later there was a swath of the south  of England with trees ripped out of the ground, sheds and greenhouses  demolished, cars pushed off the road and a number of casualties

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

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