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greghale
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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 Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: Door warning switch |
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The door warning diagram Vans has uses a normally open switch to activate a relay. What happens if the relay doesn't work? I decided to take the relay out of the circuit. I checked with Mouser and found they sell both the normally open and normally closed switch. I purchase 4 normally closed magnetic switches from Mouser part number 540-MP201702. These are just like the magnetic switch Vans sells but is normally closed when the magnet is pulled away. With this switch I am able to eliminate the relay in the circuit. If any switch senses the magnet in the door latch moving away from the switch, a ground is supplied to the warning light and lights it up. Any thoughts on my idea. I am using LED annunciator lights which require very little current.
Mouser on-line catalog page 1790 http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=MP201702virtualkey54010000virtualkey540-MP201702
Greg...
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Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com |
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orchidman
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: Re: Door warning switch |
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I'd be interested in seeing your circuit.
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Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
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Lenny Iszak
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: Door warning switch |
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Nice simple idea.
If I'm following you correctly. Failure modes would be as follows:
If a magnetic switch stick closed it will show the door as not latched. Which is not a bad failure mode.
If the switch fails in the open position the LED will not light up and would indicate the door is latched. This failure could be detected by adding a "check door ajar lights are on" to the preflight check list with the power applied and the doors open.
Double check the current rating of the switches compared to the current draw of the LEDs.
As a side thought C I also talked to a builder from Canada at the Arlington Flyin that used micro-switches that were activated by the door rod as it pushed through the frame.
Vern Smith (#324)
> Subject: Door warning switch
| Quote: | From: ghale5224(at)aol.com
Date: Wed C 1 Oct 2008 13:09:50 -0700
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
--> RV10-List message posted by: "greghale" <ghale5224(at)aol.com>
The door warning diagram Vans has uses a normally open switch to activate a relay. What happens if the relay doesn't work? I decided to take the relay out of the circuit. I checked with Mouser and found they sell both the normally open and normally closed switch. I purchase 4 normally closed magnetic switches from Mouser part number 540-MP201702. These are just like the magnetic switch Vans sells but is normally closed when the magnet is pulled away. With this switch I am able to eliminate the relay in the circuit. If any switch senses the magnet in the door latch moving away from the switch C a ground is supplied to the warning light and lights it up. Any thoughts on my idea. I am using LED annunciator lights which require very little current.
Mouser on-line catalog page 1790 http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=MP201702virtualkey54010000virtualkey540-MP201702
Greg...
--------
Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=207067#207067
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See how Windows connects the people C information C and fun that are75mrt/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now [quote][b]
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greghale
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: Re: Door warning switch |
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Gary,
This is the electrical circuit using the normally closed switches.
Greg...
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Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com |
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wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: Door warning switch |
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When I first received the Door light warning kit and looked over the schematic, I thought "why so complicated?"
Vans is usually very conservative and will default to the KISS principle unless there is a good reason to do otherwise. There is a very good reason for the relays and the seemingly more complicated circuit in the original setup. With the Van's circuit, all parts of the circuit MUST be functioning perfectly in order to extinguish the light. The door unlatched or a failure of ANY component in the circuit will keep the light illuminated as long as there is power. If a wire breaks, the light will remain on; if the relay fails, the light will remain on; if any of the switches fail, the light will remain on. The Van's circuit requires power to the relays to keep the light extinguished.
Changing the switches to normally closed defeats the original purpose of the Van's design and introduces a failure mode where a break in the switch circuit will give the indication that all is well when in fact it may not.
I will not be using the relays but I will be using the normally open switches. The AFS EFIS has inputs for things such as this and wired to normally open, can trigger a master alarm whenever the input line is NOT grounded. This configuration adheres to the Van's principle. If there is a break or failure of any component in the circuit, the light (master alarm) will remain illuminated.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
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KiloPapa
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Pearblossom, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: Door warning switch |
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Good observation/explanation.
Kevin
40494
do not archive
Subject: re: Re: Door warning switch
| Quote: |
When I first received the Door light warning kit and looked over the
schematic, I thought "why so complicated?"
Vans is usually very conservative and will default to the KISS principle
unless there is a good reason to do otherwise. There is a very good
reason for the relays and the seemingly more complicated circuit in the
original setup. With the Van's circuit, all parts of the circuit MUST be
functioning perfectly in order to extinguish the light. The door
unlatched or a failure of ANY component in the circuit will keep the light
illuminated as long as there is power. If a wire breaks, the light will
remain on; if the relay fails, the light will remain on; if any of the
switches fail, the light will remain on. The Van's circuit requires power
to the relays to keep the light extinguished.
Changing the switches to normally closed defeats the original purpose of
the Van's design and introduces a failure mode where a break in the switch
circuit will give the indication that all is well when in fact it may not.
I will not be using the relays but I will be using the normally open
switches. The AFS EFIS has inputs for things such as this and wired to
normally open, can trigger a master alarm whenever the input line is NOT
grounded. This configuration adheres to the Van's principle. If there is
a break or failure of any component in the circuit, the light (master
alarm) will remain illuminated.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
|
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Kevin
40494
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greghale
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 91
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Door warning switch |
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Interesting explanation. This is why I uploaded the diagram and idea. I needed some thoughts into this change before I wired it in. Thanks for the replies.
Greg...
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Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: Door warning switch |
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Greg,here's a thought.
Put little green LEDs on the panel, across each NC switch. If the door
isn't closed, no 'green to go', and you'll know immediately which door is
causing the problem. The LEDs will draw less current than the relays which
may be significant if you lose alternator power. I like simplicity (and
weight) too, and that's my thought.
Linn
greghale wrote:
| Quote: |
Interesting explanation. This is why I uploaded the diagram and idea. I needed some thoughts into this change before I wired it in. Thanks for the replies.
Greg...
--------
Greg Hale rv10 -- N210KH
www.nwacaptain.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7406#207406
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