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larry huntley
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149
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 Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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Hi Folks,
I have a different problem with a throttle spring. I am working on a
Kitfox 2 (N815TL) with a 582 Rotax and 2 Bing carburetors.The aircraft has
over 500 hours and is on at least its third owner. He wants to learn to fly
on this bird,so I am concerned about getting everything right.
I am familiar with Kitfox . I built a 4-1200 / Soob on which I have
500hrs.
On the model 2 the spring(s) is quite strong and pulls to CLOSE the
throttle. In case of a failure of the throttle cable, it seems that it would
shut the engine down. Is this the normal situation for this aircraft? I know
absolutely nothing about Rotax engines so any help will be beneficial. This
plane has a vernier throttle( which I don't care for) and the spring is
strong enough to make the vernier difficult to manage. I have flown the
plane only once. It seems to be a fine aircraft.
The other problem with this model 2 is the elevator. It is in the bottom
of two holes at the leading edge. In flight the stick is much farther
forward than in any other aircraft I have flown. If you line up the elevator
and the horizontal stabilizer on the ground,this stick is in what feels like
a more normal position. This means that in flight the elevator must be well
into the down position. The owner says the seller had taken him for a ride
in the plane,so he must have been flying it like this. Don't know how many
of the 500 hours he put on it.
Sorry to be so long-winded,but wanted to give enough info to be able to
get some logical responses.
Thank you for any help. Larry Huntley - KF 4-1200 - Soob
EA81 -AMAX redrive - Warp Drive prop N234EE 506 HRS
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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| larry huntley wrote: | Hi Folks,
I have a different problem with a throttle spring. I am working on a
Kitfox 2 (N815TL) with a 582 Rotax and 2 Bing carburetors.The aircraft has
over 500 hours and is on at least its third owner. He wants to learn to fly
on this bird,so I am concerned about getting everything right.
I am familiar with Kitfox . I built a 4-1200 / Soob on which I have
500hrs.
On the model 2 the spring(s) is quite strong and pulls to CLOSE the
throttle. In case of a failure of the throttle cable, it seems that it would
shut the engine down. Is this the normal situation for this aircraft? I know
absolutely nothing about Rotax engines so any help will be beneficial. This
plane has a vernier throttle( which I don't care for) and the spring is
strong enough to make the vernier difficult to manage. I have flown the
plane only once. It seems to be a fine aircraft.
The other problem with this model 2 is the elevator. It is in the bottom
of two holes at the leading edge. In flight the stick is much farther
forward than in any other aircraft I have flown. If you line up the elevator
and the horizontal stabilizer on the ground,this stick is in what feels like
a more normal position. This means that in flight the elevator must be well
into the down position. The owner says the seller had taken him for a ride
in the plane,so he must have been flying it like this. Don't know how many
of the 500 hours he put on it.
Sorry to be so long-winded,but wanted to give enough info to be able to
get some logical responses.
Thank you for any help. Larry Huntley - KF 4-1200 - Soob
EA81 -AMAX redrive - Warp Drive prop N234EE 506 HRS |
Larry,
The throttle system you describe is normal for the Rotax two strokes. The cables are pretty robust. I do not know of any failures in flight. I have and prefer a friction type throttle. I don't like the vernier either.
That Horizontal stab/stick/elevator position is odd.
Two things come to mind. An adverse aft center of gravity and/or the flaperon rigging is out of wack. Did you have to hold forward pressure on the stick for level flight?
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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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At 08:07 AM 10/9/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | On the model 2 the spring(s) is quite strong and pulls to CLOSE the
throttle. In case of a failure of the throttle cable, it seems that it would
shut the engine down. Is this the normal situation for this aircraft?
|
Yes and no. I have a big spring inside the cabin that offsets the
carb springs so I have no load on the vernier. Ideally you should
have it set up so the carbs go full throttle in case of breakage, but
there's no way to do that with the motorcycle carbs on the 582.
| Quote: | In flight the stick is much farther
forward than in any other aircraft I have flown.
|
Possibly a seriously aft CG. I'd check it. Also make sure the
flaperons aren't reflexed up, as they are used for trim on the model II.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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Larry
It is normal for the 582 to spring closed. To make this a bit more manageable you can use the same method as the guys with the 912's and use a counterbalance spring on the bellcrank to arrive at the best feel for you.
I got a hell of a shock when I first flew the Jabiru powered Kitfox after flying my 582 model as when I pushed the vernier know in to taxi it immediately leapt to full throttle. Gave my passenger quite a fright - Me too!
Gary Algate
Classic 4 jabiru 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"larry huntley" <asq(at)roadrunner.com>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
10/10/2008 01:54 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com cc
Subject
Throttle springs and HS adjustment
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "larry huntley" <asq(at)roadrunner.com>
Hi Folks,
I have a different problem with a throttle spring. I am working on a
Kitfox 2 (N815TL) with a 582 Rotax and 2 Bing carburetors.The aircraft has
over 500 hours and is on at least its third owner. He wants to learn to fly
on this bird,so I am concerned about getting everything right.
I am familiar with Kitfox . I built a 4-1200 / Soob on which I have
500hrs.
On the model 2 the spring(s) is quite strong and pulls to CLOSE the
throttle. In case of a failure of the throttle cable, it seems that it would
shut the engine down. Is this the normal situation for this aircraft? I know
absolutely nothing about Rotax engines so any help will be beneficial. This
plane has a vernier throttle( which I don't care for) and the spring is
strong enough to make the vernier difficult to manage. I have flown the
plane only once. It seems to be a fine aircraft.
The other problem with this model 2 is the elevator. It is in the bottom
of two holes at the leading edge. In flight the stick is much farther
forward than in any other aircraft I have flown. If you line up the elevator
and the horizontal stabilizer on the ground,this stick is in what feels like
a more normal position. This means that in flight the elevator must be well
into the down position. The owner says the seller had taken him for a ride
in the plane,so he must have been flying it like this. Don't know how many
of the 500 hours he put on it.
Sorry to be so long-winded,but wanted to give enough info to be able to
get some logical responses.
Thank you for any help. Larry Huntley - KF 4-1200 - Soob
EA81 -AMAX redrive - Warp Drive prop N234EE 506 HRS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8045#208045
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
[quote][b]
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larry huntley
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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=======AVGMAIL-48EEA02C0000=======--
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_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade |
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larry huntley
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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Thanx to everyone for the responses to our problems with the throttle and HS on the Mod 2 . You have been most helpful.
For some reason I can't seem to post from outlook express. I am receiving ok. ??? Larry Huntley
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paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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On Thu, October 9, 2008 5:27 pm, larry huntley wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanx to everyone for the responses to our problems with the throttle and HS on the
Mod 2 . You have been most helpful.
For some reason I can't seem to post from outlook express. I am receiving ok. ???
Larry Huntley
|
You posted a number of empty messages. A possible clue is that you have your AVG
scanner set to examine outgoing messages, as was seen in one of them.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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815TL
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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Hi Guys,
This is the owner of 815TL that Larry was talking about. I want to send out a thank you to all of you for the information that you have provided to Larry and to me.
I also want to send a big "thank you" out to Larry, who has been a great help, and source of information. Without his help, I would have been up a creek. 
Larry and my instructor flew the plane for a while yesterday, and shot a number of approaches and landings. From the latest report, it sounds like the stick issue is not that big of deal, and just takes a little getting used to. I may still adjust it a little, but at this point it does not sound like it is a CG problem.
Again, thank you all, and I am sure I will be back for more info. in the near future.
Andrew
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akflyer
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Throttle springs and HS adjustment |
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The stick position may just be the way it is rigged. On mine, the way I got it, putting the elevator in line with the stab, put the stick right under the edge of the panel. All I had to do was take a few turns on the heim joint (on the elevator push rod) to put the stick in a more comfortable position.
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_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die.... |
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