Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

outrigger leg broke

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Hi All,



While taxiing today on pavement my left outrigger gear leg snapped off. 

I pulled the brake, and the Airmaster warp drive blades hit the asphalt 

and shredded.



Has anyone heard of an outrigger leg snapping off like that? I thought 

they were supposed to bend a lot without breaking.



very sad Kevin

Paul Boulet

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Malibu, California

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Kevin I'm so sorry.  The same thing happened to me.  I seem to recall that the ourigger legs have a limited life- mine were probably over 5 yrs old by the time I tested the a/c and they were brittle enough to snap off

 Paul Boulet, N914PB tri gear for sale with 25 hours on it, Malibu, CA



--- On Mon, 10/27/08, Kevin Klinefelter <kevann(at)gotsky.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Kevin Klinefelter <kevann(at)gotsky.com>

Subject: outrigger leg broke

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 3:58 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin Klinefelter

<kevann(at)gotsky.com>



Hi All,



While taxiing today on pavement my left outrigger gear leg snapped off. 

I pulled the brake, and the Airmaster warp drive blades hit the asphalt 

and shredded.



Has anyone heard of an outrigger leg snapping off like that? I thought 

they were supposed to bend a lot without breaking.



very sad Kevin



	
	
 [quote][b]

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Kevin,

Sorry to hear that. Where abouts along the leg did it break? Maybe a weak 

point to watch. You didn't hit anything? I haven't had that 

problem......yet.

Cheers,

Tim

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton,

Christchurch

NEW ZEALAND

PH 0064 3 3515166

MOB 021 0640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

---

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Yours and mine came in the same shipment to CA. I did not know they 

broke, just heard of the mechanism collapsing.



very sad Kevin



Paul Boulet wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Kevin I'm so sorry.  The same thing happened to me.  I seem to recall 

 that the ourigger legs have a limited life- mine were probably over 5 

 yrs old by the time I tested the a/c and they were brittle enough to 

 snap off

 Paul Boulet, N914PB tri gear for sale with 25 hours on it, Malibu, CA



 --- On *Mon, 10/27/08, Kevin Klinefelter /<kevann(at)gotsky.com>/* wrote:



     From: Kevin Klinefelter <kevann(at)gotsky.com>

     Subject: outrigger leg broke

     To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

     Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 3:58 PM



     

     <kevann(at)gotsky.com>



     Hi All,



     While taxiing today on pavement my left outrigger gear leg snapped off. 

     I pulled the brake, and the Airmaster warp drive blades hit the asphalt 

     and shredded.



     Has anyone heard of an outrigger leg snapping off like that? I thought 

     they were supposed to bend a lot without breaking.



     very sad Kevin



               



 *

 *

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Hi Tim,



I broke right where it meets the alum. mount.

I didn't hit anything. Was turning right at fast walking speed when the 

left wing went down and made noise, my instinct was to pull the brake 

lever that my hand was already on. Maybe if I didn't touch the brake...



One good thing is the wing tip only hit the ground enough to chip a 

little paint. The outrigger mechanism was still locked down.



very sad Kevin



Tim Ward wrote:

[quote] 



 Kevin,

 Sorry to hear that. Where abouts along the leg did it break? Maybe a 

 weak point to watch. You didn't hit anything? I haven't had that 

 problem......yet.

 Cheers,

 Tim

 Tim Ward

 12 Waiwetu Street

 Fendalton,

 Christchurch

 NEW ZEALAND

 PH 0064 3 3515166

 MOB 021 0640221

 ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

 ---

kpaviat(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Hi Kevin! Sorry about the outrigger leg. I had an incident where my broke on

landing, normal speed with no lateral force. Broke exactly where yours

did... Anyway I chalked it up to aging material and stress at the socket. I

had no damage except for a few small scratches on the socket assembly that I

could dress out with no problem. Do not pull on brake as this just noses the

aircraft over enough to hit the prop tips...ouch!

At least with the Rotax if there is no runout problem on the prop flange you

can just bolt up a new set of blades and go again...not sure what airmaster

advises though. 

Talk to ya soon!

kp

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

sorry tale Kevin!

I hope something good comes out of it - like a service life for replacement 

or some new leg material.

Hope rest of prop is OK

Best Wishes and GOOD LUCK from now on

Bob Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz



Do not archive

---

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:33 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

My port outrigger leg broke in the middle while reversing the plane on the trailer, after an engine check. 0 flying hours. Since the starboard wing was not fitted, quite some weight hit my wife's leg. She and the leg did not like that. Her leg however did not break. I reported that back to the factory, and on their request sent the broken ends to check. Never heard anything about a reason though. Some reasoning led to the conclusion that the nylon can dry out if the air humidity is very low on average. 



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

air.guerner(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Kevin, 

 Sorry for your mishap!  It seems this could  happen to all of us monowheel drivers and I am very concerned about that  happening to me. The consequences could even be  more serious than a broken prop, especially on a narrow mountain or farm strip  bordered by fences, ditches or trees. Relying on the random quality of a  piece of nylon is not satisfying. 

 Has any one engineered a replacement rod made of  other material such as glassfiber or metal ? Some motorgliders are  using spring steel rods successfully. It seems to me that the possible  failure of those materials under extreme load, fatigue or aging would be a  lot more predictable than with the supplied nylon outriggers.

 Regards

 Remi

  

  

  

 <<I broke  right where it meets the alum. mount.

I didn't hit anything. Was turning  right at fast walking speed when the 

left wing went down and made noise, my  instinct was to pull the brake 

lever that my hand was already on. Maybe if I  didn't touch the brake...>>>

    [quote][b]

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

I live in a very low humidity, desert environment...



Sure wish mine woulda broke with lesser consequences



josok wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My port outrigger leg broke in the middle while reversing the plane on the trailer, after an engine check. 0 flying hours. Since the starboard wing was not fitted, quite some weight hit my wife's leg. She and the leg did not like that. Her leg however did not break. I reported that back to the factory, and on their request sent the broken ends to check. Never heard anything about a reason though. Some reasoning led to the conclusion that the nylon can dry out if the air humidity is very low on average. 



 Regards,



 Jos Okhuijsen

 Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Remi, It isn't clear to me that being without one or even both outriggers 

should be much of a disaster other than in the most exceptional 

circumstances. Gliders after all always land without any, just keeping the 

plane level & pointing in roughly the right direction until it stops, when 

it gently subsides on to one or other wingtip. If anything the loss of an 

outrigger should help to keep that wing up  as the other will be slightly 

weighed down. As we are as often as not on one or other outrigger wheel 

during the take off & landing run, dealing with the very small amount of 

drag on a solitary outrigger shouldn't be too difficult. I wouldn't look for 

alternatives, just perhaps think of taking a spare if embarking on a long 

tour.

Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

---

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Well Kevann, that makes 2 incidents, where low humidity could have played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK based planes. They do have a humidity problem, at the other extreme. 



To exclude a batch problem, wat is your kit #? I had kit #600 When i reported the incident 3 years ago nobody had ever heard of such a thing. Now there seem to be more. 



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Hi! Jos /all

I'm not a mono/man but didn't someone find an alternative type of nylon

quite a while ago? Is it in the Archives?

Regards

Bob H



--

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Hi Jos,



Mine is kit # A211 and Paul Boulet, who also had a failure is near that 

kit #. His broke in Arizona, so that follows your theory.



Kevin



josok wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Well Kevann, that makes 2 incidents, where low humidity could have played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK based planes. They do have a humidity problem, at the other extreme. 



 To exclude a batch problem, wat is your kit #? I had kit #600 When i reported the incident 3 years ago nobody had ever heard of such a thing. Now there seem to be more. 



 Regards,



 Jos Okhuijsen

 Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Kevin Klinefelter wrote:

Hi Jos,Mine is kit # A211 and Paul Boulet, who also had a failure is 

near that kit #. His broke in Arizona, so that follows your theory.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Kevin

 Well Kevann, that makes 2 incidents, where low humidity could have 

 played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK 

 based planes. They do have a humidity problem, at the other extreme.

> Jos Okhuijsen

Nylon will absorb up to 7% of its own weight in water if my memory isn't 
	


wrong again. I know Europa did a lot of tests in the early days and  a 

special nylon  was chosen. No humidity test afaik

Graham

gcrowder2

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 136
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Mine is A36 and living in very dry Denver seems to have no issues.  I'm going to

 look today to see if it would be possible to insert a tubular nylon stiffener that would surround and extend out of the outrigger mount an inch or so to eliminate the stress riser and spread the load.  

  

 Also thinking of trying some stiffer down springs to try and get the outriggers to

 lock down at a higher airspeed.  Mine seem to be getting tired after 10 yrs and

 do not clunk down until I'm slowed up on short final - a little disconcerting!

 Looking at McMaster's selection of extension springs there's hundreds of them!

  

                                                    Glenn

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Wed C 29 Oct 2008 06:31:17 -0700

 From: kevann(at)gotsky.com

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke

 

 --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin Klinefelter <kevann(at)gotsky.com>

 

 Hi Jos C

 

 Mine is kit # A211 and Paul Boulet C who also had a failure is near that 

 kit #. His broke in Arizona C so that follows your theory.

 

 Kevin

 

 josok wrote:

 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi>

 >

 > Well Kevann C that makes 2 incidents C where low humidity could have played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK based planes. They do have a humidity problem C at the other extreme. 

 >

 > To exclude a batch problem C wat is your kit #? I had kit #600 When i reported the incident 3 years ago nobody had ever heard of such a thing. Now there seem to be more. 

 >

 > Regards C

 >

 > Jos Okhuijsen

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > 

 

 

 <============

 

 

 


	


Store C manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. Start uploading now  [quote][b]

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Kevin and all



Has any thought been given to replacing the outrigger mechanism and leg with 

a shorter leg and wheel - just long enough to prevent wear on the wing-tips?



This would be back to the glider appearance and some would not like the 

rocking sideways but everything would be a lot more simle and the nylon legs 

avoided.



JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz



Do not archive

---

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Erich,



I was just about to look on McMaster Carr's site for 1-1/4" nylon rod. 

I'll look to see if I can get the MDS type.

I too thought of trying to reduce stress at the OR1

I am thinking of making an OR1 to use for testing the legs for flex, 

including the original one on my other wing that did not break...yet.



Thanks for the tips, Kevin



Erich Trombley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I have been using a different material for my outriggers for the last 

 6 years without issue.  I chose to go with MDS (molybdenum 

 disulfide) filled Nylon 6/6 material.  The material is available on 

 line from a number or vendors; I purchased mine from McMaster Carr.  

 The material is very flexible, supposedly has good impact strength and 

 is less subject to UV degradation than other materials.  I have yet to 

 break a leg.  You might also try and scallop the back face of OR1 in 

 attempt to reduce the stress riser. 



 Erich Trombley

 N28ET Classis Mono 914



 ________________________________________________________________________

 A New Way to Get Free & Discounted Offers -- FreeInternet.com! 

 <http://offers.juno.com/TGL1112/?u=http://www.freeinternet.com>

 *

 *

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

I painted those legs by UV-protected paint

 (yes - paint is still there w/o any  damages).

 That was also and mostly for their appearance - now they  almost disappear when retracted.

 When unpainted people may think they are made by that  ugly, weak and hollow tube for electric wires.

  

 Raimo 

 OH-XRT 2007 #417

 95,5 hrs 209 landings

 [quote]   ---

Europa_A2A-kaarto-p.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

57.59 KB

Viewed:

318 Time(s)

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: outrigger leg broke

Hi Kevin,



Sorry to hear of your mishap.  Kim Prout had an outrigger leg break on

landing at Livermore once.  We gave him one of our legs from out kit to

get him home.  Fortunately for him, no damage to the prop, etc.  We now

keep a spare leg in our plane, just in case.



Regards,

Terry

--

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum