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Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

The two part epoxy primer should be ok for the inside of the spars.  Actually if your plane is kept in a hanger out of rain I doubt you would need anything in the spars.  Aluminium will form its own oxide coating which protects it as long as it doesn't get wet.  For the weight that is involved prime it if it makes you feel happier.  The nice thing about the two part primer is it won’t dissolve with the other finishing chemicals.  

   

As for the fuselage that's a different quintal of fish.  I recommend drilling one small hole 1/16 " close to the top of the frame on the inside.  Use a small syringe to inject about a cup or two of double boiled linseed oil into the frame.  Put a small screw into the hole and then rotate the frame in every possible direction for about a week.  (change the rotation daily) Then drain the linseed oil out the same hole into a can.  (Turn the frame upside down).  Replace the screw with a little epoxy around it to seal the hole.  There are a few things to know about linseed oil.  One is it will never dry until it comes in contact with air.  The driest it will get inside your frame is the consistency of a gel so you don't need to re inhibit your frame at a later date.   

   

 Linseed oil likes to migrate... it will on its own wick into every nook and cranny of the frame from the inside and inhibit any corrosion that can form in there.  The biggest thing to remember about using linseed oil is it will spontaneously combust if you allow it to drip on a floor and then wipe it up with a rag.  It usually takes about fifteen minutes to break into fire (from a wet/damp rag) and I can guarantee you it will produce a lot of white smoke.  If you have to wipe up any drips put the  rag outside in a fire proof rag bin.  Funny thing is in a dish or can it will not spontaneously combust.  It needs the larger surface area a cloth gives.  

   

   

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C936DF.03B46250[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

   

   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

Thanks for the suggestion Noel, that brings a question to mind...  Is there a place in all the joints in the fuselage for oil to flow through ?  I thought that many of them might be closed off with metal.  Would I not have to drill a hole in almost every other tube vertical tube in the fuselage to get this stuff in there ?  I have this stuff from Aircraft Spruce called Tube Seal that is made for corrosion protection of aircraft tubing.  More expensive than linseed oil, but I'm hoping it will work better.  



There will most definitely be times when my plane is out in the weather...   I hope just during cross countries, and rainstorms, but it may turn into longer than that.  Hangers here in Miami cost 650 a month at the small GA airport, that is after you do the three year wait for one 



Thanks for the warning on Spontaneous Combustion, that would have really sucked to burn down my house    But then again, this new knowledge could also lead to hours of entertainment  



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

Having welded on a fuselage frame, I strongly believe that if you drill one 

small hole in one portion of the frame for introducing the oil, that tube 

and that tube only will be protected.  Every tube has it's own welded end, 

that is every tube is separated by the joint weld - almost all are butt 

welded.  The longerons might be continuous on their length but the cross 

braces are entirely separate.  How do I know?  I moved the shoulder harness 

attachment points to a position I liked a bit better and if I didn't drill a 

hole at the weld point, the heated air within the tube would blow a hole in 

the tube near the weld.  For my money, especially if the frame is well 

coated - epoxy primer, or powder coat - I would leave that part alone.



That said, though, there have been reports in the past of the powder coat 

lifting, blistering or light dustings of corrosion on the surface as if 

pinpoint defects were in the powder coat.  This was years past and I suspect 

the factory has addressed this issue with better surface prep before the 

powder coating, but, to put it succintly, I wish my new old kit was not 

powder coated.



Lowell



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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

I wonder if any thought has been given to drilling a small hole into  

the main tube right where the "to-be-added" tube will intersect it?  

This would insure that the flow of the rust/corrosion inhibiter would  

be able to flow freely throughout the entire airframe. Maybe this is  

standard practice, I don't know...if not, why not?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system



On Oct 25, 2008, at 10:17 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>



 Having welded on a fuselage frame, I strongly believe that if you  

 drill one small hole in one portion of the frame for introducing  

 the oil, that tube and that tube only will be protected.  Every  

 tube has it's own welded end, that is every tube is separated by  

 the joint weld - almost all are butt welded.  The longerons might  

 be continuous on their length but the cross braces are entirely  

 separate.  How do I know?  I moved the shoulder harness attachment  

 points to a position I liked a bit better and if I didn't drill a  

 hole at the weld point, the heated air within the tube would blow a  

 hole in the tube near the weld.  For my money, especially if the  

 frame is well coated - epoxy primer, or powder coat - I would leave  

 that part alone.



 That said, though, there have been reports in the past of the  

 powder coat lifting, blistering or light dustings of corrosion on  

 the surface as if pinpoint defects were in the powder coat.  This  

 was years past and I suspect the factory has addressed this issue  

 with better surface prep before the powder coating, but, to put it  

 succintly, I wish my new old kit was not powder coated.



 Lowell

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Jim Shumaker

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 106

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

Lynn

  

 I understand that Sean D Tucker (acro pilot) has all the tubes (in the Oracle Challenger) drilled at the intesection and then the inhibitors are introduced and then nitrogen under pressure is introduced.  Then a pressure gauge in installed.  Any loss of pressure is a cause for concern.  So yes it is done.  

  

 Jim Shumaker



 

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_________________
Jim Shumaker

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

I own a Grumman canoe it has been in the water, mostly fresh, but with several trips on the briny blue.  I think it's a '47 or '48.  The only  mark on it wis where my father didn't pull it completely out of the water on one occasion.  This canoe built of aircraft grade aluminium has been left in the woods for years at a time and basically abused but at close to 60 years it is still nto leaking a drop and I'll put it up against any of the plastic canoes or other aluminium canoes on the market at this time.  In fact it appears to be  better built than some of the newer Grummans.  My point is it takes some doing to corrode aluminium.   That being said  I’ve also had to replace lots of aluminium in planes.  Surprisingly most of it was at one time or the other protected with zinc chromate, Alumiprep or Alodine.   The job I’m not loking lorward to is having to change out the washroom in any jetliner...  that is a known high corrosion area.  

   

If you are going to protect the interior of the spars a two part epoxy zinc chromate is not necessary because nothing has to stick to it.  Sloshing with a regular zinc chromate will give ample protection to the interior of the spars.  The exterior of the spars is another question.  The wing covering has to be able to have a strong bond with the spars.  This means a two part epoxy is required because it is not dissolved by the fabric adhesive.  Zinc chromate will actually protect the aluminium at a molecular level.  Apply it sparingly and be sure to wear rubber gloves when working with any zinc chromate.  

   

I put out a fire once in the iron ore concentrator plant in Labrador City.  A painter had dropped a rag damp with linseed oil in a garbage can.  The garbage was dumped into a dumpster which was right beside the oil reservoir in the plant.  I happened to notice the smoke as I walked past and before I could get the extinguisher out and ready to operate flames were coming out of the dumpster ten to fifteen feet high... inside the plant.  I put out the fire and shortly afterward I had to explain why I had used the extinguisher.  It was a large one on a dolly with fifty feet of hose.  When the safety technicians looked in the dumpster and the blisters on the paint of the oil reservoir I was considered the hero of the moment.  

   

Noel  

   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

All cluster joints should be open inside.  The strength is in the tube not the interior.  One hole in the frame should give access to the interior of the whole frame.  The only exceptions will be any brackets which may be welded to the frame.  

   

One thing about any resin or powder coat finish is that if there is ine little abrasion in the finish then it is possible to have a filliform corrosion to develop under the finish.  This type of corrosion can usually be repaired by sanding the affected area to remove corrosion and re-finishing.  There is a good section in AC43 on corrosion and anti corrosion methods.  Download a copy and have a read.  

   

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C9375F.9084C190[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

   

   

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

Now that you mention it, I've heard that too. In that application,  

the reason is to keep track of any cracks that might appear due to  

stress, and he sure puts 'em under stress, but I was wondering if any  

of the "common folk" airplanes...those that are tube frames, get the  

"drill and weld" procedure to insure oil flow throughout. To be more  

to the point of this Kitfox list, I wonder if Kitfoxes are done this  

way.  John?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system

On Oct 26, 2008, at 12:50 AM, James Shumaker wrote:



[quote] Lynn



 I understand that Sean D Tucker (acro pilot) has all the tubes (in  

 the Oracle Challenger) drilled at the intesection and then the  

 inhibitors are introduced and then nitrogen under pressure is  

 introduced.  Then a pressure gauge in installed.  Any loss of  

 pressure is a cause for concern.  So yes it is done.



 Jim Shumaker



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

Download it hell, buy the book! It's a good "bible" to have on hand  

when you want to know how to build your plane. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system

do not archive

On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    There is a good section in AC43 on corrosion and anti corrosion  

 methods.  Download a copy and have a read.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

I have a printed copy and one on my PDA and of course one here...  they all

get well used.  Some guys just won't buy one until they see what's in it.

It is the basis for all aircraft maintenance and it goes into some depth as

to why, not just do it this way.



Noel



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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????

When I first got started building, I bought one, and every now and  

then I just look through it to learn something new.

I couldn't have successfully built my skis without it, for instance.  

And for running wires, wires in bundles, wires near liquid  

lines....it just goes on and on.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system

do not archive

On Oct 27, 2008, at 4:18 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 I have a printed copy and one on my PDA and of course one here...   

 they all

 get well used.  Some guys just won't buy one until they see what's  

 in it.

 It is the basis for all aircraft maintenance and it goes into some  

 depth as

 to why, not just do it this way.



 Noel



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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