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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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All,
It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared.
Blue skies,
Buz
http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. [url= http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001 ]Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals![/url]
[quote][b]
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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | All,
It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared.
Blue skies,
Buz
http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/08102703.html
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Buz,
We will look forward to your flight testing of the maneuver in the Factory Demo.....
You experienced types should set the pace.
After watching this, I needed clean underwear. (or at least cleanER underwear)
Doug Koenigsberg
[quote][b]
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EAFerguson(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: | All,
It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared.
Blue skies,
Buz
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Buz,
I watched, but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing, no trailing wires or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing.
Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute!
Earl
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. [url= http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001 ]Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals![/url]
[quote][b]
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mark(at)flylightning.net
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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I think it's a clever use of movie editing tools. I'm pretty certain it's a model and they edited in the last 3-4 seconds of the actual full size aircraft.
Just my thoughts.....
At least it wasn't a video of a Zenith 601XL!!
Mark
[quote] --
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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One of the IMAC meets (Radio control), that I flew in about 3-4 years ago had this type of accident with the same result. We were all flying 35-45% aircraft and a guy lost a wing just like this. He saved it in the same way.
Made me thing that this was RC with some really good video editing...?
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:39 PM, <EAFerguson(at)aol.com (EAFerguson(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)aol.com (N1BZRich(at)aol.com) writes:
| Quote: | All,
It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared.
Blue skies,
Buz
|
Buz,
I watched, but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing, no trailing wires or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing.
Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute!
Earl
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
[b]
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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It's no coincidence that right during the time of touchdown that the aircraft goes out of focus and even at that seems to "jump" unnaturally. This is an imaginative mind with bad video editing.
Having said that C I remember in AOPA magazine a few years ago in the back C the question section C there was a true or false about a guy landing with one wing. I don't remember the guys name C but I wish I could find the story again. I do remember he was up after the plane come out of maintenance and he was flying an aerobatic plane. As he didn't plane on doing any aerobatics he didn't wear a chute. He heard a popping noise and looked over at his wing which was failing upwards. At this point he rolled the airplane inverted away from the failing wing to keep pressure on the top of the wing (relative I realize). He then proceeded inverted using only slight rudde to turn. At this point he realized he should've brought a chute and had time to think about what a bad situation he was in. So he got the plane down low and planned to roll the airplane upright away from the bad wing. He thought it might give him a chance to live through it. He got down low and proceeded to roll. As the wing translated its load the wing failed upward. The plane hit hard. I think the damage was that the plane nosed over C but not on its back. So the plane was mostly ok C the pilot was fine. Sorry I don't have the reference for the story.
Another good and common story was the Israeli F-15 that had one wing totally missing and flew back to base and landed. That one was caught on video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_EXtBEaBbs I wouldn't exactly believe the part where he says "MD flew out and said it wasn't possible C that physics wouldn't allow it." Other than that C great story. Brian W.
Date: Wed C 29 Oct 2008 16:47:17 -0400
From: pequeajim(at)gmail.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Next checkride requirement
One of the IMAC meets (Radio control) C that I flew in about 3-4 years ago had this type of accident with the same result. We were all flying 35-45% aircraft and a guy lost a wing just like this. He saved it in the same way.
Made me thing that this was RC with some really good video editing...?
On Wed C Oct 29 C 2008 at 4:39 PM C <EAFerguson(at)aol.com (EAFerguson(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time C N1BZRich(at)aol.com (N1BZRich(at)aol.com) writes:
| Quote: | All C
It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared.
Blue skies C
Buz
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Buz C
I watched C but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing C no trailing wires or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing.
Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute!
Earl
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
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| Quote: |
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
Store C manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. Start uploading now [quote][b]
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Wayne Lenox
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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What this RC guy did is actually a pretty common maneuver in most aerobatic competitions. Most all aerobatic RC airplanes can perform stunts like the knife edge that he used to land. What makes it possible to land in the knife edge is the extreme power to weight ratio that an RC airplane has. Maneuvers like knife edge loops, knife edge into hover are all possible with a talented pilot. He just flew it in a high alpha knife edge close to hover and then rolled it to gear down once he got close to the ground. The high alpha maneuver slows the aircraft to a crawl.
Very difficult, but not at all beyond the skills of a good RC pilot. Ask Nick, I can guarantee, he flies knife edge all the time…
Here is a pic of me flying a low level high alpha knife edge in a photo shoot for FLY RC magazine. That is an electric conversion of a glow model and the motor could yank the airplane out of the knife edge with very little rudder input. The airplane is actually flying with very little forward speed. If I remember correctly, my daughter caught me just before I lost my nerve and climbed away from the ground.
Jim!
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:00 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Next checkride requirement
It's no coincidence that right during the time of touchdown that the aircraft goes out of focus and even at that seems to "jump" unnaturally. This is an imaginative mind with bad video editing.
Having said that, I remember in AOPA magazine a few years ago in the back, the question section, there was a true or false about a guy landing with one wing. I don't remember the guys name, but I wish I could find the story again. I do remember he was up after the plane come out of maintenance and he was flying an aerobatic plane. As he didn't plane on doing any aerobatics he didn't wear a chute. He heard a popping noise and looked over at his wing which was failing upwards. At this point he rolled the airplane inverted away from the failing wing to keep pressure on the top of the wing (relative I realize). He then proceeded inverted using only slight rudde to turn. At this point he realized he should've brought a chute and had time to think about what a bad situation he was in. So he got the plane down low and planned to roll the airplane upright away from the bad wing. He thought it might give him a chance to live through it. He got down low and proceeded to roll. As the wing translated its load the wing failed upward. The plane hit hard. I think the damage was that the plane nosed over, but not on its back. So the plane was mostly ok, the pilot was fine. Sorry I don't have the reference for the story.
Another good and common story was the Israeli F-15 that had one wing totally missing and flew back to base and landed. That one was caught on video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_EXtBEaBbs I wouldn't exactly believe the part where he says "MD flew out and said it wasn't possible, that physics wouldn't allow it." Other than that, great story. Brian W.
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:47:17 -0400
From: pequeajim(at)gmail.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Next checkride requirement
One of the IMAC meets (Radio control), that I flew in about 3-4 years ago had this type of accident with the same result. We were all flying 35-45% aircraft and a guy lost a wing just like this. He saved it in the same way.
Made me thing that this was RC with some really good video editing...?
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 4:39 PM, <EAFerguson(at)aol.com (EAFerguson(at)aol.com)> wrote:
In a message dated 10/29/2008 1:48:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, N1BZRich(at)aol.com (N1BZRich(at)aol.com) writes:
| Quote: |
All,
It will be worth your time to go to the below site and watch the video. This maneuver may very well become a requirement on your next check ride. Ask your instructor to teach you this. Be prepared.
Blue skies,
Buz
|
Buz,
I watched, but I don't believe. Clean break at the wing, no trailing wires or parts. No close up of the joint after the landing.
Would you have stayed with this bird? Surely he had a chute!
Earl
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
| Quote: | | st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listttp://forums.matronics.com=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. Start uploading now 0123456789012345678
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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Lightning list,
I know many of you are convinced this is a fake video probably done by an accomplished RC pilot. I am not so sure. If you have been following the capabilities of unlimited aerobatic aircraft (full size people carrying airplanes) recently then you know that many of them can actually accomplish knife edge loops. The very powerful engines and highly responsive rudder authority would allow that type of landing at much below normal wing stall speeds. Of course it wasn't a smooth landing, more like a hard plop down, but damn, the timing was right on. Also, it looks like an airplane and course that I have seen in the Red Bull contest. Time will tell, but as I said, I kind of think it is the real thing. Below is what one of the Beechcraft list guys had to say about the video.
Buz
Well folks, I watched the landing VERY carefully - stop-frame carefully. I
may be missing something but what I see is an extraordinary exhibition of
skill and cool-headed thinking. Watch again - closely - particularly near
the ending. Just prior to touchdown, while airborne at the most precarious
angle imaginable, you'll see the rudder going full RIGHT to bring the nose
down AND the left aileron deflecting FULL UP - meaning stick simultaneously
slammed full RIGHT (totally counter-intuitive control input) to provide
maximum drag on the LEFT wing; enough to roll the plane left to a
nearly-level touchdown. Whereas the more instinctive control input (left
stick) would have rolled the plane over on it's back - fatally, I'm sure.
Remarkable outcome by any measure!!!!
It's certainly understandable in this age where special effects are
commonplace that such a bizarre event will draw huge skepticism. But
driven mostly by the last few frames of film viewed, my sense is that this
fellow survived as a true TOP GUN.
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. [url= http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001 ]Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals![/url]
[quote][b]
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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In a message dated 10/29/2008 6:03:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dashvii(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | So he got the plane down low and planned to roll the airplane upright away from the bad wing. He thought it might give him a chance to live through it. He got down low and proceeded to roll. As the wing translated its load the wing failed upward. |
Brain, I remember that as well - it was during the time frame when I was competing in aerobatic contest in my Pitts. I think it happened in Europe and I think the pilot may have been Neil Williams.
Buz
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. [url= http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001 ]Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals![/url]
[quote][b]
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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In a message dated 10/29/2008 8:26:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pequeajim(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | Here is a pic of me flying a low level high alpha knife edge in a photo shoot for FLY RC magazine. |
Jim,
Impressive photo. I suggest a RC flying contest as part of the 3rd annual Lightning fly-in next September in SYI. I know several of the Lightning builders are accomplished RC pilots and of course Nick has been known to display his talents on occasion - like during almost every "coffee break". I volunteer to be the judge.
Buz
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. [url= http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001 ]Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals![/url]
[quote][b]
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: Next checkride requirement |
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That would be a fun thing to do... I would add to that an RC combat contest too, last one flying wins!
On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 8:10 AM, <N1BZRich(at)aol.com (N1BZRich(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] In a message dated 10/29/2008 8:26:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pequeajim(at)gmail.com (pequeajim(at)gmail.com) writes:
| Quote: | | Here is a pic of me flying a low level high alpha knife edge in a photo shoot for FLY RC magazine. |
Jim,
Impressive photo. I suggest a RC flying contest as part of the 3rd annual Lightning fly-in next September in SYI. I know several of the Lightning builders are accomplished RC pilots and of course Nick has been known to display his talents on occasion - like during almost every "coffee break". I volunteer to be the judge.
Buz
Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
[b]
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Bill Strahan
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Next checkride requirement |
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Look at the video shortly after the wing "folds". It is obvious that it is part of his aerobatic routine, and it was edited, because just after the wing comes off, he goes into what would otherwise be considered a normal spin. Look at the spin, and he's spinning INTO the good wing. For that to happen, the other wing would have to be there to provide the lift to cause the rotation.
Just watch the video and the spin right after the wing comes off. Now picture the wing still being there, and that spin looks perfect. Without the wing, the spin would be impossible.
Not to mention the shaky-camery guy yelling "he lost his right wing" within a moment or two. There are very few people who would have called it that way in the heat of the moment, and with the plane rolling as it was, it would take a moment to know which wing just failed. I think 99.999999% of the world would say "he just lost a wing" or "his wing just broke" or something similar. I don't think they'd say "he lost his right wing."
It was some neat video editing, except for the bounce. That bounce would have splayed the landing gear, don't you think?
Oh well. I think I'll re-edit the video and put in my own voice saying "Look! His right wing just failed, cleanly, right at the fuselage juncture, and there are no wires, torque tubes, conrol rods, fuel lines, or anything hanging from the fuselage!"
Hey, did I mention his direction of rotation doesn't change at the point at which the wing "fails"? Ah, dead horse. Never mind.
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