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Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding

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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding

 	  Quote: 	
		  From http://www.zenairulm.com/News/index_files/Page349.htm:


	


"Developing Situation with the Zodiac XL in the Netherlands:



On Saturday October 25, Zenair Sarl was informed by a Dutch Zodiac XL owner

that the Dutch CAA had issued an emergency Airworthiness Directive the

previous day, calling for the immediate grounding of all Zodiac XL in the

Netherlands, effective immediately.



This came as a complete surprise to Zenair Europe, Zenair Ltd and Zenith

Aircraft Co. as none of us had been previously contacted by the Dutch

authorities. We were further surprised that the basis for the NL-CAA action

was a preliminary accident report that offers no new findings regarding the

Zodiac XL design. Rather it makes allusion to various other accidents and

suggests that the "calculated strength" of the design is "probably too

optimistic".



Zenair is eager to discuss the basis for these statements with the Dutch CAA

and is keenly awaiting the return of CAA staff from their seasonal holiday.

In the mean time, we note that no past accident investigations involving the

CH 601 XL has ever found fault with the basic design; two accidents (2006 &

2008) are still being researched by the NTSB in the USA - completed design

analysis in each case, however, has already found the design's engineering

to be sound. We can also note that the Zodiac XL is not approved in Europe

just on "calculate strength", but on "demonstrated strength" as well

(extensive load-testing).



To help appease possible concerns among neighboring countries, Zenair has

taken the initiative of issuing an AD of its own. This AD (No. ZE-2008-01)

addresses an important issue that may have contributed to the accident

currently being investigated in Holland. We hope to share our thoughts on

the issue with the Dutch CAA as soon as we may, and look forward to

assisting with the on-going investigation in any way that we can.



We believe that everyone concerned here has a common goal: to quickly find

the solution(s) that will permit the Zenair CH 601 XL to once again be

deemed "airworthy" by the CAA in the Netherlands.



Please return to this page periodically for updates on this evolving

situation."



And here is a link to the cable tension AD:



http://www.zenairulm.com/News/pdfdocs/ZE-2008-01.pdf



-- Craig

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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and groun

So the Dutch government grounds the airplanes without consulting any arm of Zenair and then goes on vacation. Great.



Makes you sort of appreciate the FAA.

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_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding

On Friday 31 October 2008 15:31, Gig Giacona wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   So the Dutch government grounds the airplanes without consulting any arm of

 Zenair and then goes on vacation. Great.



 Makes you sort of appreciate the FAA.


	


It makes me wonder if this is overreaction, or if they really found something 

significant. 

-- 

==============================================

Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

=================================================

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skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding

Really? I like the fact they are really gonna investigate it, not like the

FAA. The FAA really does not investigate experimental accidents. I have been

in a few investigations with the FAA and when it is a certified aircraft

involved they do everything, no stone left unturned. If it is a experimental

it is a quick once over, pictures and report.



Personally I think the Dutch may find something. Don't' get me wrong I own

601 HD HDS and XL plans along with 701 plans and the HD and HDS have never

had failures like we are seeing in the XL planes whether they are plans

built, kit built or factory built in Czech. I truly believe that too many

people are taking the whole 601XL problems personally and refuse to think

there just might be a problem. So before we condem the Dutch for doing what

they do every year and been doing it for ever, let them have their vacation

and then lets see what they come up with.



David M.



--

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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and groun

I fail to see how not even contacting the designer prior to grounding of the airframe can be called investigating. I sound reactionary to me.



Everyone I know involved takes it very seriously. And according to what has been released by Zenith the NTSB is investigating in concert with Zenith.



And there has been quite a bit of information for builders/flyers of the XL to act on. Namely, the elevator stops and checking to insure that the control cables are properly tensioned.

 



 	  skyguynca wrote: 	
		  Really? I like the fact they are really gonna investigate it, not like the

FAA. The FAA really does not investigate experimental accidents. I have been

in a few investigations with the FAA and when it is a certified aircraft

involved they do everything, no stone left unturned. If it is a experimental

it is a quick once over, pictures and report.



Personally I think the Dutch may find something. Don't' get me wrong I own

601 HD HDS and XL plans along with 701 plans and the HD and HDS have never

had failures like we are seeing in the XL planes whether they are plans

built, kit built or factory built in Czech. I truly believe that too many

people are taking the whole 601XL problems personally and refuse to think

there just might be a problem. So before we condem the Dutch for doing what

they do every year and been doing it for ever, let them have their vacation

and then lets see what they come up with.



David M.



--

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601XL Under Construction
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skyguynca

Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 128

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and grounding

OK, now I really don't see how or why they need to contact the designer.

When a factory certified line gets grounded they get notified and that is

all. The investigation needs to remain separate from the designers and

companys to assure a through investigations is done.



Now after reading all these replies don't you guys see how personally you

are taking this whole thing? Your planes are not grounded, your not being

investigated, so why all the commotion and emotions? I could understand if

the FAA grounded all 601XL's in the US but that is not the case. 



Try remaining unemotional, non-speculative and just wait for the findings of

the CAA.

David M.



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Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and groun

When the NTSB investigates an accident they designer/manufacture is virtually always involved. How else would a bunch of bureaucrats have any idea the calculations went into a design? 



As far as our emotions are involved. I haven't read too many posts lately that showed overt emotional content. But of course we care. Stuff like this effects the value of our aircraft even if there isn't an issue and if there is it means that there is a problem with something many of us have several years and thousands of dollars on.



If you think there was too much emotion in any of my posts on the European actions it is because I hate it when governments do stupid things. And since it looks like Tuesday we are going to become a more European like nation it bothers more than it might normally.



 	  skyguynca wrote: 	
		  OK, now I really don't see how or why they need to contact the designer.

When a factory certified line gets grounded they get notified and that is

all. The investigation needs to remain separate from the designers and

companys to assure a through investigations is done.



Now after reading all these replies don't you guys see how personally you

are taking this whole thing? Your planes are not grounded, your not being

investigated, so why all the commotion and emotions? I could understand if

the FAA grounded all 601XL's in the US but that is not the case. 



Try remaining unemotional, non-speculative and just wait for the findings of

the CAA.

David M.



--

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K Dilks

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 108
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Zenair Europe's comments on the Dutch accident and groun

W.R. "Gig" Giacona 

 And whats the problem with being European then?

  Please consider what you say.

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