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Speaking of fuel systems...

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naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

All-

     WW (And others)  question whether my header tank was built correctly at the factory.  Pictures are attached. The feed line comes from a console mounted Facet. The  extra ports are (Supposedly) for a sight gage quantity indicator. He thinks the  input should be at the top of the tank, and he's not the only one that  has expressed that opinion in the past.

     I have an e-mail in to Zenith,  but I'd appreciate any input. Mark, if you're monitoring the list, what do you  think?

     

 Bill Naumuk

Townville, Pa.

HDS 601MG/Corvair  95%

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bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

With the feed at the bottom, fuel will leak back into the wing tank possibly causing it to overflow unless a check valve is installed in that line. That is the only issue you might have with that configuration, the pump will feed fuel into the tank just as well either way. Some Facet pumps have a built-in check valve, some are designed to allow a very small amount of back flow (as I recall about 1/2 gallon per hour) in order to allow fuel lines to depressurize after shut-down. If you want to use the Facet pump as your check valve, make sure you get the correct model number.

On Nov 1, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  All-

    WW (And others) question whether my header tank was built correctly at the factory. Pictures are attached. The feed line comes from a console mounted Facet. The extra ports are (Supposedly) for a sight gage quantity indicator. He thinks the input should be at the top of the tank, and he's not the only one that has expressed that opinion in the past.

    I have an e-mail in to Zenith, but I'd appreciate any input. Mark, if you're monitoring the list, what do you think?

   

Bill Naumuk

Townville, Pa.

	




 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, 

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.



 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

jonaburns

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 32

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of fuel systems...

Is there a possibility that that feed goes up to the top of the tank on the inside of the tank?



Plug the output, or hold the hose up and put some liquid in the tank to see if it siphons out the input tube when half full.



I would not trust a check valve if the tank can siphon.

Jon Burns

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

Jon-

    That's a possibility that's never been brought up before. If one of the 

bottom feeds does go to the top of the tank, I have to make sure which of 

the bottom 2 it is. I would imagine I could take the cap off and stick an 

inspection mirror in thereto find out. You can be sure I'll check.

                                                                Bill

---

grs-pms(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

My 8 gallon header tank had two inlets on the bottom.  I had a welder 

relocate one of them to the top and plug the resulting hole at the bottom. 

Neither bottom inlet had a tube inside the tank.



George Swinford



---

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

George and all-

    The question is, why the hell did Zenith configure the header tank this 

way?? You'd think there must be a reason.

                                                        Bill

---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

The early Zodiacs had no wing tanks, the header tank was all there  

was. In that case, there would be no need to have a fuel line entering  

the top. But that doesn't explain the extra port at the bottom.



On Nov 1, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Bill Naumuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 George and all-

   The question is, why the hell did Zenith configure the header tank  

 this way?? You'd think there must be a reason.

                                                       Bill


	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

grs-pms(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

The early zodiacs had the option of tanks in the wing lockers, so the second 

inlet on the bottom was needed.  Perhaps they just standardized on that 

feature.



George

---

jlatimer1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

Bill,

My HDS 8 gallon header tank came with 2 fittings at the top of the tank, a fitting at the bottom, and an output at the bottom that goes to fuel shutoff and engine.



My instructions say to plumb one of the top fittings to my optional wing tanks.  The other 2 are for a clear sight glass to be used as a fuel gauge.



I've seen some instructions in the early models that had the top fitting being shared as a feed line and the top of the fuel sight gauge.  I can remember 8 or 9 years ago when folks that were flying HDS's and HD's saying they used that feature to know that their pump was working.



By using the bottom as a feed I would worry about leaving the plane with the header and the wing tanks full.  Over time the fuel would siphon out of the header through the built in leak in the facet pump to the wing tanks.



Jerry

HDS 912S  finally getting close to finishing.

---- Bill Naumuk <naumuk(at)alltel.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   All-

     WW (And others) question whether my header tank was built correctly at the factory. Pictures are attached. The feed line comes from a console mounted Facet. The extra ports are (Supposedly) for a sight gage quantity indicator. He thinks the input should be at the top of the tank, and he's not the only one that has expressed that opinion in the past.

     I have an e-mail in to Zenith, but I'd appreciate any input. Mark, if you're monitoring the list, what do you think?

     

 Bill Naumuk

 Townville, Pa.

 HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

Jerry-

     Another lister thought that the two bottom inputs were to accomodate 

locker tanks. I don't think that's valid, because both would still be 

feeding from the bottom.

     I thought I had things figured out a couple of months ago after an 

earlier posting, but William Wynne stopped me cold in my tracks on two 

issues, the header routing and a firewall mounted Facet boost pump from the 

header

    That's why I wonder whether my tank is built correctly for my 

configuration. Locker tanks with individual manual valves gravity fed to a 

console mounted Facet which pushes fuel into the header. This is Jeff 

Small's setup, which has around 500 hours on it. I can't see anything wrong 

to this point, and the manual valves will prevent backwash to the wing 

tanks.

    As far as the firewall Facet boost pump, WW says he's "Never seen 

anything but a gravity feed system from a header". Both Larry Mac and Jeff 

have booster Facets, so this is a non-issue.

     I guess I'll just have to wait to hear from Zenith.

                                                            Bill



  .



---

grs-pms(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

Bill (and others interested):



I meant to suggest that the second inlet was to accommodate wing locker 

tanks, if those were installed.  I think putting the second inlet on the 

bottom of the tank was a mistake in design, which was later rectified.  As I 

said, I had a welder move the second inlet on my tank to the top.



As for the firewall-mounted Facet boost pump, it goes with installation of 

the Stratus Subaru which has dual Bing carbs on top of the engine, too high 

for gravity feed.  I hope this clears things up a little.



George

---

s.clive.richards(at)homec
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

Bill 

                We have only the bottom outlet  to gascolator + near top & bottom  outlets which were originally designed for a sight gauge, we blanked the  bottom, feed in via top & use an electrical gauge.  I note you have the  Zenith supplied taper tap ours was very tight to operate, leaked &  eventually seized, we used a ball type fuel valve from a motor racing supplier  very easy to turn. Another builder at our airfield with a HDS feeds his in via  the bottom if you do this beware most facet pumps have a uncalibrated leak to  prevent overpressurisation to carb from retained heat or from sun expanding the  fuel and will drain into wing tanks over time if not isolated also a leak  in this pipe could leak into cockpit

 Clive  do not archive

 Rays G CBDG 260Hrs

 Message ----- 

 [quote]   From:    Bill Naumuk (naumuk(at)alltel.net)    

   To: zenith list (zenith-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:58    PM

   Subject: Speaking of fuel    systems...

   



   All-

       WW (And others)    question whether my header tank was built correctly at the factory.    Pictures are attached. The feed line comes from a console mounted Facet. The    extra ports are (Supposedly) for a sight gage quantity indicator. He thinks    the input should be at the top of the tank, and he's not the only one that    has expressed that opinion in the past.

       I have an e-mail in to Zenith,    but I'd appreciate any input. Mark, if you're monitoring the list, what do you    think?

       

   Bill Naumuk

Townville, Pa.

HDS    601MG/Corvair 95%

[b]

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: Speaking of fuel systems...

Clive-

     That's not the Zenith supplied  shutoff- I got it from a supplier in Philadelphia. It's meant to switch  auxilliary tanks on a truck. 

     I'm trying to avoid going with  an electrical fuel gage- the project is on the heavy side as it is.

                                                                 Bill

                                       

 [quote]   ---

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of fuel systems...

Just curious, are these tanks gas welded? I'm in the process of making my tanks and just wondering how they're made at Zenith. Those welds appear to be gas welds, which is what I'm doing, with lots of practice of course.

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Speaking of fuel systems...

Andy,

All the fuel tanks supplied by Zenith are TIG welded.

As are all the weld-ments; steel or aluminum.

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

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