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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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 Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone. 
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue. The shape of the bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the fuselage skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured product?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
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carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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This is where you use shims. Take some .032” and .025” scrap aluminum and cut into small squares, say ¾” by ¾” but you can trim them to fit as needed. Drill and dimple a hole in the center of the square and then prime. Insert the shim between the rib and the skin. In some places you will need to use two shims.
The shims make the difference in having a nice curve in the skin as it follows the rib instead of flat spots where you drove in the rivet (without having anything in the gap between the skin and rib as shown in your photos).
The rule is if you can squeeze a shim in between the skin and the rib, you need a shim.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (475 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue. The shape of the bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the fuselage skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured product?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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Thanks Carl.
I'm actually getting some small outward dents where the corners of the bulkheads are pressing against the inside of the skins.
Do I shim to the point where the corners are lifted from the skin? Or do I leave the corners pressing against the skin and shim the gap only?
I'm guessing option 1.....
Phil
From: Carl Froehlich [mailto:carl.froehlich(at)cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
This is where you use shims. Take some .032” and .025” scrap aluminum and cut into small squares, say ¾” by ¾” but you can trim them to fit as needed. Drill and dimple a hole in the center of the square and then prime. Insert the shim between the rib and the skin. In some places you will need to use two shims.
The shims make the difference in having a nice curve in the skin as it follows the rib instead of flat spots where you drove in the rivet (without having anything in the gap between the skin and rib as shown in your photos).
The rule is if you can squeeze a shim in between the skin and the rib, you need a shim.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (475 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue. The shape of the bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the fuselage skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured product?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
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carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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For corners that severe you might want to so some minor rounding of the rib’s sharp edges using a scotch bright wheel in addition to using a shim.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Thanks Carl.
I'm actually getting some small outward dents where the corners of the bulkheads are pressing against the inside of the skins.
Do I shim to the point where the corners are lifted from the skin? Or do I leave the corners pressing against the skin and shim the gap only?
I'm guessing option 1.....
Phil
From: Carl Froehlich [mailto:carl.froehlich(at)cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
This is where you use shims. Take some .032” and .025” scrap aluminum and cut into small squares, say ¾” by ¾” but you can trim them to fit as needed. Drill and dimple a hole in the center of the square and then prime. Insert the shim between the rib and the skin. In some places you will need to use two shims.
The shims make the difference in having a nice curve in the skin as it follows the rib instead of flat spots where you drove in the rivet (without having anything in the gap between the skin and rib as shown in your photos).
The rule is if you can squeeze a shim in between the skin and the rib, you need a shim.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (475 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin
Hi Everyone,
Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.
I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue. The shape of the bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the fuselage skin.
I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.
1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured product?
2) How did you fix it?
Thanks,
Phil
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0123456789 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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2 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
3 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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[quote][b]
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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I think If I remember back about 4 years ago...I saw the same thing and hand bent the tabs so they were rounded...this is not the only place you will run into this...I used the hand seamer on edge to make the tabs rounded so the skin laid flat across the bulkheads tabs. I remember because the tab center whre the hole is was too far for the cleco to reach and get a good grip...man the little things you can recall after four years..once you bend the tabs, run the whole thing across the scotchbrite wheel to make a nice smooth raduis for the skin to rest and remove any sharp edges for the tab to dig into the skin.
Rick Sked
40185
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Bill Cannon
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 11
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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Hey Phil,
I saw this subject on VAF a while back. The discussion there went towards using liquid shim. Did you consider that? I'll be getting to where you are soon enough. Let me know. It's nice having an advance scout.
Bill
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avu1(at)md.metrocast.net
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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I can't remember either but I think Rick is correct. I would check the
instructions again. I think you're supposed to flute those tabs. Try
that first to reduce the amount of shimming required.
Anh
40141-Flying
[quote]
I think If I remember back about 4 years ago...I saw the same thing and
hand bent the tabs so they were rounded...this is not the only place you
will run into this...I used the hand seamer on edge to make the tabs
rounded so the skin laid flat across the bulkheads tabs. I remember
because the tab center whre the hole is was too far for the cleco to reach
and get a good grip...man the little things you can recall after four
years..once you bend the tabs, run the whole thing across the scotchbrite
wheel to make a nice smooth raduis for the skin to rest and remove any
sharp edges for the tab to dig into the skin.
Rick Sked
40185
---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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I remember doing that last year. Fluting is the answer.
John
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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tsts4
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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I completed my tailcone riveting in Aug and fluting does help. I also used a rubber grommet while riveting to allow me to push the tab and the skin together and it came out great. If you decide to shim, recommend going the liquid shim route--you can use epoxy and flox quite easily to make the shim.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying |
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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Were you fluting the edges of each tab? Just to bend them slightly away
from the skin?
I'm thinking of fluting and then using some epoxy and flox to fill the
gap during assembly.
Thanks for the advice.
Phil
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hotwheels
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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I recall this step well and fluting the tabs helps a lot. However, some of the rivets still "suck up" the skin into rather unsightly indentations. This was especially noticeable around the small bulkhead just fwd of the aft deck.
The local tech counselor suggested lightly tapping a beveled 3/4" dowel with a sand filled mallet against the affected rivet shop heads. The indents popped right out and the skin is now flush. I didn't shim anything.
Jay
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Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin |
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Thought I'd share you the feedback from Vans...
Phil
-----------------------------------------
Phil,
File or hammer down the corners of the flanges so that they don't make
the outward dent in the skin, then shim the flange to make the bulkhead
fit the skin better.
Bruce
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