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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Agree with Dennis. Yesterday was at the top of a loop at 90 kilometers/hour and zero G. She hung there “unloaded” quite nicely without the least interest in stalling. I do not recommend doing that for those that are not comfortable with spin entry and recovery. The gotcahas’ with this aircraft is poor FOD control and not knowing how to do spin recovery. Recognizing the impending entry makes it a lot easier to prevent having to recover. Flying with a competent IP in the YAK is a start then going out and flying with someone like Sergei if you still are not comfortable with Acro in this aircraft. She is not an airplane to be afraid of. She is a plane to respect and knowing your entry speeds along with knowing the recovery techniques will make you very comfortable flying this aircraft.   

FOD prevention is a must or you could end up in a unrecoverable state with the screw driver, knife, ect lodged in the elevator counter weight . The is another thread.  

Doc  

   

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese

 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:08 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

  

  

     

Who said. "the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers"?  A CJ owner?  Common guys....don't scare the guy off.  The airplane was a trainer!  Read again....trainer.   Primary and aerobatic up through intermediate levels of aerobatics.  It was not designed to kill people.  People were trained in this airplane that never touched or felt and airplane before in their lives.  To say the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers is clearly over stated.  ANY airplane can bite you if not flown correctly, particularly during aerobatics.  Proper training is the key.  

    

   

    

Contact me off-list if you want to discuss the benefits of either of these two fine airplanes.  

    

Dennis  

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: AKMac (macjohnson(at)gmail.com)   

    

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:12 PM  

    

Subject: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

    

   

  

--> Yak-List message posted by: "AKMac" <macjohnson(at)gmail.com (macjohnson(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has?

 

 I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget.

 

 Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913

 

 

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Doc's point about FOD control is paramount.   Not only in the 52, but in any aircraft you intend to do aerobatics in.  As  for the 52, it is well documented in the accident reports that the elevator  bell crank is most susceptible to FOD  jamming.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Jan,  

Have you had training in the Anti-G maneuvers? Aerobic and weight training also help with increasing your G tolerance. Flying under high G frequently also improves your tolerance. Laying off for a few days will cause your tolerance to be less.  Your G tolerance will vary from day to day so doing a G warm up before going into a full up routine will help you to determine where you are on that day too.  Starting the Anti-G strain before you start your pull will help keep you ahead of the G’s as they build up.   

Glad you  survived your 42 seconds of GLOCK. Many do not.  

If you can get in touch with the flight physiology or flight medicine department at one of your local fighter bases  should be helpful in getting you trained. If memory serves correctly, you are in Belgium or was it Holland?  

Any other questions about Anti-G maneuvers, contact me off list.  

Doc  

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese

 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:16 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

  

  

     

So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness?  

    

Dennis  

    

   

  [quote]    

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Jan Mevis (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)   

    

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM  

    

Subject: RE: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

    

   

  

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)>

 

 Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the

 second one, would be nasty ...

 My native tongue isn't English ...

 

 Jan

 

 

 --

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Thanks for the good advise, Doc!  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp MD

 Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 15:35

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

Jan,  

Have you had training in the Anti-G maneuvers? Aerobic and weight training also help with increasing your G tolerance. Flying under high G frequently also improves your tolerance. Laying off for a few days will cause your tolerance to be less.  Your G tolerance will vary from day to day so doing a G warm up before going into a full up routine will help you to determine where you are on that day too.  Starting the Anti-G strain before you start your pull will help keep you ahead of the G’s as they build up.   

Glad you  survived your 42 seconds of GLOCK. Many do not.  

If you can get in touch with the flight physiology or flight medicine department at one of your local fighter bases  should be helpful in getting you trained. If memory serves correctly, you are in Belgium or was it Holland?  

Any other questions about Anti-G maneuvers, contact me off list.  

Doc  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese

 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:16 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness?  

Dennis  

  [quote]    

----- Original Message -----   

From: Jan Mevis (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)   

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)   

Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM  

Subject: RE: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)>

 Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the

 second one, would be nasty ...

 My native tongue isn't English ...

 Jan

 --

MarkWDavis

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Syracuse, KS

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Being properly hydrated particularly in warm  weather seems to make a significant difference in my g tolerance.  I  think I recall it being discussed in my Navy training also.  Dehydration  also effects judgement.  I always drink a bottle of water before any flight  that will involve any high g maneuvering and carry a bottle with me on longer  flights on hot days.   Rapid but controlled pull versus just snatching  the g allows you to pull until onset of grey and then I unload and roll wings  level if any doubt before turning back into a fight.

  

 Mark Davis

 N44YK

 [quote]   ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Sage advice that I left out. Not intentionally, just was not snap thinking of it.  

Doc  

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis

 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:57 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

  

  

     

Being properly hydrated particularly in warm weather seems to make a significant difference in my g tolerance.  I think I recall it being discussed in my Navy training also.  Dehydration also effects judgement.  I always drink a bottle of water before any flight that will involve any high g maneuvering and carry a bottle with me on longer flights on hot days.   Rapid but controlled pull versus just snatching the g allows you to pull until onset of grey and then I unload and roll wings level if any doubt before turning back into a fight.  

    

   

    

Mark Davis  

    

N44YK  

  [quote]    

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Roger Kemp MD (viperdoc(at)mindspring.com)   

    

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:34 AM  

    

Subject: RE: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

    

   

  

Jan,  

Have you had training in the Anti-G maneuvers? Aerobic and weight training also help with increasing your G tolerance. Flying under high G frequently also improves your tolerance. Laying off for a few days will cause your tolerance to be less.  Your G tolerance will vary from day to day so doing a G warm up before going into a full up routine will help you to determine where you are on that day too.  Starting the Anti-G strain before you start your pull will help keep you ahead of the G’s as they build up.   

Glad you  survived your 42 seconds of GLOCK. Many do not.  

If you can get in touch with the flight physiology or flight medicine department at one of your local fighter bases  should be helpful in getting you trained. If memory serves correctly, you are in Belgium or was it Holland?  

Any other questions about Anti-G maneuvers, contact me off list.  

Doc  

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese

 Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:16 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

  

  

     

So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness?  

    

Dennis  

    

   

  [quote]    

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: Jan Mevis (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)   

    

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM  

    

Subject: RE: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions  

    

   

  

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be (jan.mevis(at)informavia.be)>

 

 Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the

 second one, would be nasty ...

 My native tongue isn't English ...

 

 Jan

 

 

 --

Pete M

Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Kent, UK

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Lots of good advice although a bit scary. I started with instruction in the more gentle art of rolls, loops and stall turns all of which should not tax an average persons G tolerence. Then work up to the higher G later.



The classic gotcha in a Yak is trying to force it around a stall turn when it will not go. A good recipe for a stall/spin scenario which without adequate height is tricky. More than a few have spun in off a high power/low speed departure from controlled flight.



If it will not go around then centralize the controls and shut the power off. The machine will fall either backwards or forwards into a nose down attitude which is definitely better than a flat spin.



But you do have to really provoke a Yak to make it bite you. Just don't keep poking it with a sharp stick!

_________________
Pete M
ex 83-3708

shinden33

Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 39

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

If anyone is interested the facility I work for, the National AeroSpace Training and Research (NASTAR) Center, offers anti-g training. www.nastarcenter.com  We have a full motion sustained g simulator capable of 9+ g's if you're really feeling froggy!  Contact me off-line if anyone is interested.



Scott Glaser

N8252

flushjohnson(at)charter.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

The 52 is a smaller airplane tha the CJ6. Your airframe would be better off 

in a CJ. I would advise you to look a little further at the comparrisions of 

the 52 and the CJ. The CJ will do every thing the 52 will do and is a better 

cross country airplane, hands down. the stock CJ with 285 HP will give you 

135 kts at 13 GPH. The 52 will  do max 120 kts at 17 gph. Would lile to 

discuss further at your convience. I have a great CJ6 forsale.

---

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Forrest, you are the man!  I love it!  



Mac, they can be kind of hard to find now-a-days, but if you can live

with a single seat aircraft, the YAK-50 is one of the best aircraft

around for big guys.  I am over 6'6", and my weight is classified for

fear someone might actually plug the numbers in on a weight and balance

issue (smile).  I can not fit in a 52 or a CJ-6.  However, I can fit

into a stock 50 (single seat model).  I have moved the seat back a few

inches... An easy mod, and that leaves me with even more comfort.  



Forrest is right in that the CJ is a faster aircraft with even less fuel

burn than the 52.  I can't honestly let the statement go that the CJ

will do everything that the 52 will do.  The CJ will do gentleman

aerobatics with aplomb.  The CJ is not built for competitive aerobatic

instruction, while the 52 is.  The CJ-6 does what I call "nice"

aerobatics.  The YAK-52 does RIP YOUR LIPS OFF aerobatics. That's where

the real difference lies.  The CJ is a graceful swan.  The 52 is a

freaking tractor.  



Of course the 50 beats both of them.  At 17 GPH it does around 158

knots. It's a weight thing, pure and simple.  



If you combine the best of both though, you get a CJ-6 with the Russian

M-14PF engine and a three bladed MT prop.  That's a very serious

airplane and I would have to say would be very hard to resist, even if

the level of aerobatics is not "perfect" per se. 



Mark Bitterlich

Wearing a flame proof suit 



--

Dale

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

I'll have to talk to my 52 and tell it to slow down and burn more gas. I cruise at 130K and 14gph.

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

While I agree the CJ6 is a fine airplane and a  better cross country airplane and also faster than the 52, I disagree the CJ6  will do everything a Yak 52 will do and your max speed of 120 knots and fuel  burn of 17 GPH at 120 knots are seriously exaggerated.  Now I  don't know what Yak 52 you've been flying, but 120 knots in cruise is clearly  not max and 17 GPH at 120 knots is definitely not max speed.  Yak 52's  cruise very comfortably at 120 -125 knots with a fuel burn of around 14 GPH  as proven on a JPI FS450 fuel flow instrument.

  

 What is the roll rate of the CJ6 Forrest?   Is it greater than 140 degrees per second?   What is the best short  field take off distance for a CJ6?  Is it less than 500 - 600  FT?   How long will you fly a CJ6 inverted, holding altitude, without  doing damage to the engine.

  

 Once again, I think the CJ6 is an outstanding  airplane.  It clearly has some advantages over the Yak 52.   But to imply it will do everything a Yak 52 will do, is an  overstatement.

 Dennis

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

petervs(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Mac,



I'm 6'7" and 295 lbs. I've flow my stock Yak 52 300 hours in the last two

years with no problems. It's a squeeze and friends laugh when I put the

plane on, but I have enjoyed it thoroughly. The Yak however is a more

capable aerobatics plane if you are into that. Of course, every CJ owner

disagrees.



Les Shockley has apparently modified his Yak 52 front seat to where the seat

was moved back 3 inches at the bottom and 5 at the top, but I have no idea

how he did that and it looks like a rather major mod to me.



I'd be interested in a rudder pedal redesign and a Malcolm canopy if someone

perfects them.



Good Luck.



Pete



                               

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Pete and Mac, I think a lot of this has to do with torso height and leg length, the two places where tall people differ.  



I have a 34-35 inch leg length.  My torso height is 48 inches.  I am just short of 6'7" in height.  I can not fit into a YAK-52... Period.  Yet, I am absolutely sure that Mac can (I outweigh you Mac [smile])  My guess is that Mac might have longer legs than myself and a shorter torso height.  



Mac? 

Mark Bitterlich

 



--

petervs(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

I guess that my Yak is bigger. 



I have a 34-35 inch inseam and I'm exactly 6'7" tall. I wear a 52XL jacket.

My callsign is Squatch, short for Sasquatch. 



I can squeeze in the back seat too, but it sucks with a capital S.



People ask how I fit myself in the Yak, I tell them it is mind over matter.

If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.



                               

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Ok, well I am then at a total loss Squatch.  When I sit in a 52, there is no way I can turn enough to get my fingers on any of the electrical switches on the left side. My shoulders hit the sides of the aircraft and I have to turn slightly sideways.  My legs hit the bottom of the instrument panel and I can not deflect the rudders fully.  The stick can not be pulled fully backwards, and my head hits the canopy unless I sit on the bare metal with not only no chute, but no padding either.  



I am convinced you are right ... Mind over matter.... You're darn tootin~!   You're da man~!  



Mark Bitterlich



P.s. I'm a 56 XL, but when I WAS a 52XL, I still could not fit.  I really would love to see how you pull this off someday!  



--

petervs(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

I guess my many years as a disadvantaged cave explorer taught me how to be

small when I need to.



Pete



                               

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Dabear(at)damned.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

Check out the RPA website as there is a spreadsheet that can help you 

calculate the costs of owning a 52 or CJ.  I'm 6'3" and 250+.  I owned a 52 

and was extremely happy with the airplane, the cockpit size being ok for 

hour long flights.  For flights to Osh or other long cross countries I 

didn't care for short leg flights and hated the cockpit.  I own a CJ now.  I 

'd recommend you check out the CJ.  Also once you add the peddle mod from 

Barry and the malcom hood, the CJ cockpit is great for long trips.



Don't get me started about baggage in the 52....

Dabear

 	  Quote: 	
		  



> 

>

> Hi guys. I'm looking into buying a Yak-52 sometime in the next year. From 

> my research these aircraft seem like capable aerobatic machines, and are 

> relatively easy and inexpensive to maintain. I think they will fit my 

> desires perfectly.

>

> This will be my first aircraft purchase and I'm trying to get an idea of 

> exactly how much these birds cost to fly. My estimates are about $110 an 

> hour wet (at 4.90 a gallon) Does this seem correct or am I way off here?

>

> Secondly I'm a long legged guy at 6'3" and 250lbs. Now I've flown C152's 

> and Super Cubs, and I can tolerate them. But I would really like an 

> airplane that is at least somewhat comfortable for me. I understand that 

> at my size this is a tall order (pun intended!) but how comfortable are 

> these airplanes for you guys?

>

> Anyways I think I have everything else figured out. If there is anything 

> odd that is specific to the Yak please bring it to my attention. Thanks.

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 11719#211719

>

Dabear(at)damned.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions

I'm a CJ owner and former 52 owner and I don't disagre with you.  The CJ can 

NOT do everything the Yak-52 can do.  The 52 is a much better acro plane 

than the CJ.  However the CJ is better for longer flights and larger people. 

The other reasons to choos a 52 or CJ over the other are all subjective to 

the individual.



While I'll not disagree that the 50 is a great airplane, I like the ability 

to take a passenger.  So I like the CJ with the M14p and 3 bladed prop as 

the best airplane.



DaBear



---

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