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F-15C Capability

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Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

Ed,

 The Israeli F-15C landing without a wing was real.  I was flying the  F-16 at the time and we got a briefing on it.  The Eagle was able to fly  for several reasons, the stabilators are differential and can create lift, the  engines can be used differentially to create lift, and not all of the wing was  missing - the wing root, which produces a large amount of lift, was still  intact.

 A real tribute to the aircraft.

 Stan Sutterfield

 Do not archive

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7PBHawwpeM

Amazing what they    can do with a RC model of the F-15 minus one wing. 

Ed    Anderson 	


 

  



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  [quote][b]

Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

Thanks, Stan.  

   

It sure looked real, but given my gullibility about the “German Ace Pilot” in the stunt plane, was not going to readily bite twice {:>).  

   

So sounds like the aerodynamic features of the F-15, the tremendous power in the engines – and the not inconsiderable skills of the pilot were responsible for this seeming impossible feat.    

   

Appreciate your explanation.   

   

 I did do a 12 miles engine-out glide in my Rv-6A to a successful airport landing in Winchester, TN once (long story), but not quite the same – although, my heart rate may well have been equal.  

   

Ed  

     

Ed Anderson  

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered  

Matthews, NC  

eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com  

http://www.andersonee.com  

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW  

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html  

        

  

From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11(at)aol.com

 Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:34 PM

 To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: F-15C Capability  

  

       

Ed,  

    

The Israeli F-15C landing without a wing was real.  I was flying the F-16 at the time and we got a briefing on it.  The Eagle was able to fly for several reasons, the stabilators are differential and can create lift, the engines can be used differentially to create lift, and not all of the wing was missing - the wing root, which produces a large amount of lift, was still intact.  

    

A real tribute to the aircraft.  

    

Stan Sutterfield  

    

Do not archive  

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		    

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7PBHawwpeM

 

 

 Amazing what they can do with a RC model of the F-15 minus one wing. 

 

 

 Ed Anderson  	
  

    

   

  



 

         

  

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       [quote][b]

_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

Your airmanship is more impressive than that of the F-15 pilot.  It  the first place, he hit another aircraft in an air-to-air fight.  He  shouldn't have.  Second, he should have ejected after the collision -  despite the outcome, attempting to fly and land the jet was poor  judgement.

 However, gliding your RV-6 12 miles to an airport landing is quite  impressive.  I hope I never have the opportunity to best your  achievement.

 You need to tell us the story sometime.  Then I'll tell you about my  ejection story.

 Regards,

 Stan Sutterfield

 Do not archive

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  I did do    a 12 miles engine-out glide in my Rv-6A to a successful airport

landing in    Winchester, TN once (long story), but not quite the same -

although, my    heart rate may well have been equal. 	


 

  



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  [quote][b]

bill(at)repucci.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: F-15C Capability

Stan,  

   

While never having flown a fighter or even been in the armed services, I think the F-15 pilot did a commendable job of saving a major asset for a small country with a small air force.  

   

If he were in the US, I would agree 100% that he should have bailed out, but flying for the Israeli air force is a different thing.  Similar to the stories we heard regarding the AVG and that saving even a small part of a plane was a big deal because that gave them the ability to salvage much needed parts.  

   

The real question comes down to is this, which asset is more valuable, the pilot or the plane parts?  In the US we view the pilot as the bigger asset but that equation may not be the same for a small country.  

   

Bill  

   

       

From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:53 PM

 To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: F-15C Capability  

  

  

       

Your airmanship is more impressive than that of the F-15 pilot.  It the first place, he hit another aircraft in an air-to-air fight.  He shouldn't have.  Second, he should have ejected after the collision - despite the outcome, attempting to fly and land the jet was poor judgement.  

    

However, gliding your RV-6 12 miles to an airport landing is quite impressive.  I hope I never have the opportunity to best your achievement.  

    

You need to tell us the story sometime.  Then I'll tell you about my ejection story.  

    

Regards,  

    

Stan Sutterfield  

    

Do not archive  

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		    

I did do a 12 miles engine-out glide in my Rv-6A to a successful airport

 landing in Winchester, TN once (long story), but not quite the same -

 although, my heart rate may well have been equal.  	
  

    

   

  



 

         

  

Plan your next getaway with1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001">Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!  

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       [quote][b]

Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

Believe whatever you like.  He was foolish to have not ejected.

 Stan

 Do not archive

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  Stan,

While never having flown a fighter or even been in the    armed services, I

think the F-15 pilot did a commendable job of saving a    major asset for a

small country with a small air force.

If he    were in the US, I would agree 100% that he should have bailed out,    but

flying for the Israeli air force is a different thing.  Similar to    the

stories we heard regarding the AVG and that saving even a small part of    a

plane was a big deal because that gave them the ability to salvage    much

needed parts.

The real question comes down to is this,    which asset is more valuable, the

pilot or the plane parts?  In the US    we view the pilot as the bigger asset

but that equation may not be the same    for a small country.

Bill 	


 

  



Plan your next getaway witx1200771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001">Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!

  [quote][b]

Steve Glasgow

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 674

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: F-15C Capability

Stan you seem so sure of what is  correct aviation judgment.  To  castigate a fellow airman when you could not have possibly known what he  perceived at the time of an incident is unfair.   I learned a long time ago not to  criticize other pilots when it comes to their judgment.    

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />  

Believe what you what, but don’t  be so quick to openly judge others without all the information. 

  

Cappy

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG

Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

Cappy,

  

 I know exactly what was the correct aviation judgement in that particular  case.  Ejection.

  

 I was not quick to judge the pilot.  I've studied that accident  in detail.  I've spent time in Israel and we talked about the  accident.  As a wing safety officer, I learned that pilots tend to want to  save an aircraft if they perceive that an accident was their fault.  In  this particular case, the perception was that the collision was the pilots  fault, thus there was a desire on the pilots part to save the aircraft even  though success was highly unlikely.  He was very fortunate to land the  aircraft - and he made aviation history by doing so.  Personally, I would  not be willing to risk my life in order to save face or make history.

  

 It is true that Israel must save every aircraft it can because of limited  funds, but when an aircraft is damaged to such an extent that it is scrap, then  saving it does not make sense.

  

 I have ejected and I have experienced the urge to save the  aircraft.  But, once the decision is made to eject (actually it's made  before takeoff in most cases), following through is straight forward.

  

 So, Cappy, I didn't make it clear in my original critique, but I don't  judge other pilots unless I do have all the information.

  

 The jet was flown to landing due to the capability of the F-15, not due to  the ability of the pilot.  In the same situation, given adequate normal  training in the F-15, you, too, could have landed the jet.  The jet landed  due to the built-in capability of the jet.  Regardless, the best option was  to eject.

  

 Regards,

  

 Stan Sutterfield

 Do not archive

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  Stan you    seem so sure of what is correct aviation judgment.  To 

castigate a    fellow airman when you could not have possibly known what he 

perceived at    the time of an incident is unfair.   I learned a long time 

ago    not to criticize other pilots when it comes to their judgment.      

Believe what you what, but don't be so quick to openly judge    others 

without all the  information.

Cappy 	


 

  



AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. [url=http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001 ]Search Now[/url].

  [quote][b]

Steve Glasgow

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 674

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

Since you sent two.  I will to.  

  

 If you want to "believe" there was not correct judgment in that  particular case.  That is perfectly OK.

  

 But now you say, "I know exactly what was the correct aviation judgment in  that particular case". 

  

 Harsh words in my opinion.  What makes you the expert?

  

 Cappy

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG

Steve Glasgow

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 674

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

---

_________________
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG

ronschreck

Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Gold Hill Airpark, NC (NC25)

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

A brief Google search has unearthed the Fighter Planes Forum:

                  http://fighterplanes.yuku.com/

  

 It is full of arguements between fighter pilot wannabe's and postal  workers.  You two should go over there and kick some butt.  We'll talk  about RV's while you are gone.

  

 Smokey

 [quote]   ---

Steve Glasgow

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 674

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: F-15C Capability

Sorry.  I didn't know there was a moderator on the  form.   I will be sure to send my comments to you first in the future  and you can decide what is OK.

  

 Cappy

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG

dale1rv6(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

Smokey,  

I thought your comment was precise and witty, that is the quality of comment I want to think of when I grow up. Oddly enough I must thank Steve (a little bit) for his part in inspiring your comment.  

Now in line with Smokey’s thought here is my 1st Hi Definition video with RVs and a wonderful fly-in, thanks to Lorene & Ollie Washburn:  

   

http://vimeo.com/2186206?pg=transcoded_embed&sec=2186206  

   

   

Happy Landings,  

Dale  

RV6a  

   

Do not archive        

  

From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Glasgow

 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 AM

 To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Fw: F-15C Capability  

  

     

Sorry.  I didn't know there was a moderator on the form.   I will be sure to send my comments to you first in the future and you can decide what is OK.  

    

   

    

Crappy  

  

       [quote][b]

bburril(at)carolina.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

You tell them Ron i'am so mad i can't.I don't think ether one of them are  flying a rv are they? 

 [quote]   ---

pam(at)bowenaero.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

ok children  - let's play nice - enough already..

  

 Do not archive

 On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:45 PM, bburril <bburril(at)carolina.rr.com (bburril(at)carolina.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]  You tell them Ron i'am so mad i can't.I don't think ether one of them are flying a rv are they? 

 [quote]  ---

sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: F-15C Capability

On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Dale Walter <dale1rv6(at)comcast.net (dale1rv6(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		                  

Smokey,  

I thought your comment was precise and witty, that is the quality of comment I want to think of when I grow up. Oddly enough I must thank Steve (a little bit) for his part in inspiring your comment.  

Now in line with Smokey's thought here is my 1st Hi Definition video with RVs and a wonderful fly-in, thanks to Lorene & Ollie Washburn:  

   

[url=http://vimeo.com/2186206?pg=transcoded_embed&sec 186206]http://vimeo.com/2186206?pg=transcoded_embed&sec 186206[/url]   

   

   

Happy Landings,  

Dale  

RV6a  

   

Do not archive        

  

From: owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rvsoutheast-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Steve Glasgow

 Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:22 AM

 To: rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com (rvsoutheast-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Fw: F-15C Capability  

  

     

Sorry.  I didn't know there was a moderator on the form.   I will be sure to send my comments to you first in the future and you can decide what is OK.  

    

   

    

Crappy 

	


 

I see what you did, there...

 

 Changing Cappy's call sign requires a vote of the rest of the squadron.

 

 -Stormy  (who might become "Spiderman" against his wishes - that's just the way it goes...)



Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope...

In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope...

 Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? 

Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston!  The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

-Mr. Obama, meet Patrick Henry...





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