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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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 Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Well I think I've been convinced to build a rivet tank. I was not aware of the blind rivets and I had doubts about the longevity of proseal. So I have decided to build a riveted tank. It allows me to construct it and I can still add a couple of gallons to the total.
I also contacted the guys who I was speaking about and got his permission to post his contact info. Again I have only traded emails but he seems honest and straight up, like normal your results/impressions may vary. Said he could help with the wind shield as well. Not sure if that means formed or what? Anyway, replace the (at) with an (at) and the email will work... "Keith Cardin"kcardin55(at)yahoo.com
Now I just have to build more flanging dies for the wing ribs, hope it doesn't take as long as it did the first time ;^)
Thanks again
Kevin
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_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune |
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Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: HDPE fuel tanks |
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R.D.
Here are some more pictures. You should post your info about rivets and
flanges to the 701801 list. I think other would find that useful.
Curt
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kenryan(at)alaska.net
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: HDPE fuel tanks |
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For those of you contemplating building this type of tank, and who also want more fuel
capacity, it may be possible to simply make the tank longer, resulting in those two ribs being
spaced further apart.
I base this on my conversations with Zenith. On my 750 kit, they are going to increase total
fuel capacity for two tanks from standard 24 gal to about 35 gal. They will do this by moving
the ribs and putting in larger tanks. As far as I know, no other modifications will be required,
but if you decide to do this you should certainly confirm that with Zenith.
Ken Ryan
750 complete kit due to ship in January
On 16 Nov 2008 at 8:50, Curt Thompson wrote:
[quote] R.D.
Here are some more pictures. You should post your info about rivets and
flanges to the 701801 list. I think other would find that useful.
Curt
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Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Sorry. I didn't mean to spam the list with a bunch of pictures.
Curt
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
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I don't know if you got a reminder from a moderator, but those pics are good info. It is defiantly not SPAM, as it applied to the topic at hand, was asked for and helpful. Maybe if the web space cost here is prohibitive and I believe it is. We should try to put pics of relative items on a single stable free website, with references to the relative thread here and links to there.
The pics helped me a bunch.
Do not archive
Kevin
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_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune |
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John75142
Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 56
Location: Kaufman, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: HDPE fuel tanks |
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DO NOT ARCHIVE
I am working on developing a set of tanks for the 701 made of HDPE. Would anyone be interested when I get this worked out.
CREATIVE SIGNWORKS
1168 Byron Rd.
Kaufman, Tx 75142
John & Mindy Short
972-962-7464
Cell: 214-240-3815
www.creative-sign-works.com
creativesigns(at)embarqmail.com (creativesigns(at)embarqmail.com)
[quote][b]
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John Short |
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infow(at)mts.net
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Thanks for the great photos Curt...
Your caps look like the ones from ACS... http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/acstlockffc.php
Is the hole in the wing skin the same diameter as the cap flange an butts up flush to the flange... ie not fastened?
I was thinking of using the ACS...
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/lwsprlfc.php with the threaded flange!
Also what is the thickness of the ring for the sending unit that is to be fastened on the inside of the tank? Is it 6061 aluminum? Did you use a rubber gasket between the sending unit and the tank then, or just Proseal as some builders do? I think that it would be very difficult to remove the sender if it was Prosealed... but then would you have to ever...
I have the Zenith recommended sending unit which includes the rubber gasket... but will have to make the mounting ring with the 10-32 threaded holes.
These are the VAN'S drain flanges VA-112 and CAV-110 sump drains from ACS..
These are the welded flanges from ACS for both sizes the drain and finger screen!
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumflange.php
These are the welded flanges from ACS... trimmed the flange off, cut the flange level with the bottom of the tank and then had to drill the holes... lots of works. Can be has also from VAN's VA-141, for about $20 per... I had the ACS flanges already so I used them... but next time I would buy from VAN'S.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumflange.php
There are a lot of builder Web Sites of the Van's aircraft wet fuel tanks systems on the Web... lots of info available!
Have fun Curt... and keep building,
Ron
 R.D.
Here are some more pictures. You should post your info about
rivets and flanges to the 701801 list. I think other would find
that useful.
Curt
--
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Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Thanks for the pictures Ron.
Those are the ACS caps I used. They are the sealed (non vented) kind. They are heavier than I expected. Appear to be quite robust.
The hole in the wing skin is about 3mm larger radius than the outside of the cap flange. I put a ring of flooring subfloor cork between the tank and the skin. Keep in mind that my tank matches the profile of the wing. I might fill the gap with ProSeal or the “3M 5200” stuff that Brady wrote about.
The ring around the ACS cap had six indents that I used to drill out for the rivets. I then eyeballed it and drill six more holes (for a total of 12). I then ProSealed and riveted the cap to the tank.
My vent is pretty much as Brady described his (actually I think I stole the idea from him). Except I ProSealed a ” flange to the bottom of my tank and threaded it with a 1/8” NPT. I will screw a vent tube in that eventually.
My fuel outlet from the tank comes out the side so I can keep the fuel lines in the wing. I still have about “ of fuel I can’t get to but at least my drain valve is below the fuel outlet. I heard a rumor that certified planes are required to have a certain about of unusable fuel in the tank – 8oz?
I think the flange I made for the fuel sender was 0.250” AL. I made it using some round whole saws obtained from Home Depot. I had to tap them for 10-32 as you describe. The ring was ProSealed in (but not the fuel sender).
Someone wrote in the archives that the rubber gasket alone would seal the fuel sender. It seemed to me that fuel would leak around the heads of the bolts. I tested this theory and sure enough – leaks around the bolt heads on the sender. I sealed my sender with Permatex #59214 from B&B Auto. I called a Permatex factory guy and he said the stuff is fuel tolerant as long as you let it cure for 24 hours before you expose it to fuel. It will be months before I get to that point.
I rinsed my tanks out with mo-gas before I put them on the wings. I wanted to see if any ProSeal debris would come out. I dumped them out into a coffee filter. The only thing I got was a little bit of lint from the cotton rag I used to wipe them down (with acetone) before sealing them up.
Let me know if I didn’t get to all your questions.
Curt
Plans building, CH701.
p.s. Working on the slats today. I should be ready to rivet them tomorrow. My Zenith pneumatic rivet puller is on order. My H.F. puller is dead (and my hands are tired). I’m pretty much done with the rudder, elevator, horizontal stab, both wings, and flaperons. The fuse is next. I’ve been working since March. This is going much quicker than I expected.
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.D.(Ron) Leclerc
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 1:45 PM
To: Curt Thompson
Subject: RE: Zenith701801-List: Re: HDPE fuel tanks
Thanks for the great photos Curt...
<snip>
[quote][b]
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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Someone, I forgot who( sorry it was you) contacted me off list. They suggested going to the KR list and looking for some aluminum welding rod, that they are pretty excited about. It seems to be some type of brazing rod, but suppose to be stronger then the parent material. Tell me what you think.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44810
or here
http://durafix.com/
Kevin
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_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune |
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stepinwolf
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Keven,
Over the years you could not attend a vintage car show without some snake oil salesman, peddling these aluminum rods. They are meant to be used with a propane torch, and can't weld, but only braze, very thin metal together. I have seen the sellers countless times, punch a small hole in a soda can, and then proceed to plug the hole with a propane torch using these rods.
In the past I have purchased them from at least three different sellers, and try as I might, I was never able to fill any holes, or join anything together for that matter. I still have a whole slue of them on the shelf, and can't take it upon myself to throw them out. Anyone interested can have a few of them for the cost to ship.
I gave up trying to weld/braze on a shoe string budget, and have recently purchased a Tig welder.
Robert
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Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo |
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bcchurch
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Racine, WI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Took a quick look at the Durafix web site that Kevin mentioned. I didn't see anything on composition but based the listed melting point and specific gravity numbers they list (732 F, 6.7 g/cm3) I'd say this stuff if an alloy of 94% Zn and 6% Al. They say it's corrosion resistant but if I'm right about the composition then I'd expect that a fuel tank or something similar made from this would be susceptible to localized corrosion at the joint since the "weld" alloy would be highly sacrificial to the base aluminum.
Just a guess.
- Ben
do not archive
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Ben Church
CH801
Racine, WI |
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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
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Thanks that was my take on them too.
Kevin
do not archive
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_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune |
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d.shrader
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: HDPE fuel tanks |
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I just wanted to point out the draw back to this type of tank design, (very nice work Curt) that someone should consider before jumping in. I know this is not a wet wing but close enough and one thing that i have dealt with on alot of wet wings is leaks. It is not something that starts over night but I have repaired quite a few and its never fun. If the tank develops a leak over time imagine how tough it might be to repair. plus pro-seal is hard to wash off. just my .02
David
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