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Windshield fit
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MDKitfox(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Has anyone had a problem with the wing root/windshield interface matching up?

My LP windshield does not neatly match up with the wing. The airfoil bend in the acrylic is about an inch over the leading edge. From about the 4 inches back then to the aft end, and at the cowling, it fits nicely. I trimmed it to the max, but to move the windshield any more aft and down would have caused the cowling and glare-shield interface to not have matched.  Anyway, it's already installed and there is no way to move it at this point. Kind of a no win deal here.
I talked with LP, (kudos to them - an excellent company.) They were very sympathetic and tried to offer suggestions, but they said heating and reforming, while possible, is not a viable option due to the risk of deformation. They suggested cutting back the corner of and making mods to the fairing cuff. I agree, but since it's a compound curve I don't think aluminum will work. Fiberglass may be a good alternative.

Has anyone tried this or had this type of issue? LP and I both agree it's probably due to being serial number 1. It is likely different than other, later, Series V's. The windshield is only 4 years old so it was made to fit later models, possibly with the smooth cowl as opposed to my bump cowl.
Once this is issue is resolved, the airplane is ready for its first flight. After 14+ years, I think it's time. (The airworthiness certificate was issued last week.)
Thanks,
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
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davestapa



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 30
Location: Woodstock, GA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more forward. I think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape covering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs, but I too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around to it yet.

C. David Estapa
Woodstock, Georgia
N97DE S5TD



On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:20:34 -0500 Weiss Richard <MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)> writes:
Quote:
Has anyone had a problem with the wing root/windshield interface matching up?


My LP windshield does not neatly match up with the wing. The airfoil bend in the acrylic is about an inch over the leading edge.  From about the 4 inches back then to the aft end, and at the cowling, it fits nicely. I trimmed it to the max, but to move the windshield any more aft and down would have caused the cowling and glare-shield interface to not have matched. Anyway, it's already installed and there is no way to move it at this point. Kind of a no win deal here.


I talked with LP, (kudos to them - an excellent company.) They were very sympathetic and tried to offer suggestions, but they said heating and reforming, while possible, is not a viable option due to the risk of deformation. They suggested cutting back the corner of and making mods to the fairing cuff. I agree, but since it's a compound curve I don't think aluminum will work. Fiberglass may be a good alternative.

Has anyone tried this or had this type of issue? LP and I both agree it's probably due to being serial number 1. It is likely different than other, later, Series V's. The windshield is only 4 years old so it was made to fit later models, possibly with the smooth cowl as opposed to my bump cowl.


Once this is issue is resolved, the airplane is ready for its first flight. After 14+ years, I think it's time. (The airworthiness certificate was issued last week.)


Thanks,


Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL


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jlfernan



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 51
Location: MIAMI

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Hey Rick,
Good to hear you are almost airborne. My kit's moving right along. Give me a shout when your get flying. We are going to be up your way in the next few weeks, girlfriend wants to talk to a realestate agent. Hope to see you again soon. Good Luck! Very Happy


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:21 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Hi Rick,

We used fiber glass for the windshield fairing cuffs on N24ZM. Just cover the area with packing tape and lay up 3-4 layers of medium weight cloth over the area. It will take you an afternoon at most. One of these days I need to get up there and check out your project. Spruce Creek is a short (very short) flight in the Rocket:)


Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL


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Guy Buchanan



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

At 06:20 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote:
Quote:
Fiberglass may be a good alternative.

Rick,
Let me know off-list if you need help with the fiberglass.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:17 am    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

This reminded me of my first in-flight emergency. Kitfox
Model 1, 582 (gray head, both engine and pilot)

A cross-country trip in December. Oddly- it was cold then..
OAT ~28F, Cold enough, in Central Texas.

...
I cranked the heater up (I felt lucky to have it- most don't)
and discovered that I didn't want my leg to touch the door-
even through 2 layers of long handles, I could feel the cold.
Since I'd expected it to be cold, and since I knew that the heater
was, at best, wishful thinking, I spent time taping up some of the
air gaps into the cabin with duct tape prior to takeoff.

Along about Lampasas, I was cold.. and so was the tape. A
piece of it separated at the wing root, and began flapping in
the wind, turning the cabin of the plane into a sounding chamber
for a tuba. First in-flight emergency.. The engine was still
running, even if it did sound as though the muffler had fallen off,
or the prop had thrown a blade. This was LOUD! I was already lined up
with the runway at Lampasas, although that was not my final destination.
checked temps.. fine. power.. fine.. WHAT WAS THAT NOISE?? I Finally
isolated it to a flapping piece of duct tape (sticking a fountain pin
through the hole changed the pitch.. and intensity).. and turned back for
home. Where I removed all duct tape.. never again.

-Jack

Quote:
Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more forward. I
think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape
covering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs, but I
too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around to it
yet.


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darinh



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Rick,

I just completed my fairings (fiberglass) and they are much better than the metal fairings. I used the brown packaging tape (comes off very easily and doesn't leave the adhesive behind) and oil-based modeling clay to get a good form. the glass is simply layed up over the tape and clay. Once it is cured, it can be removed easily using a rubber scraper under the corners. The clay will somewhat adhere to the epoxy but you can scrape most off using a spoon or butter knife and then clean the rest off with mineral spirits or wax remover. The exterior will need a few light coats of filler (unless you are a professional clay sculptor) to smooth it out and fill any pinholes...then a coat or two of primer, wet sand, and topcoat. I also used some thin rubber U-channel from Aircraftspruce and 1/16" neoprene tape to seal the edges. I will get some pics if I remember next time I am at the hanger.


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Lynn Matteson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:13 am    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Jack, it sounds like you needed a better brand of duct tape...I'm not
kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on
when it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off
until Spring. You might pull a little paint with it, but that'll keep
people from calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get
regular duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to
have a hard time getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the
plane next spring...it is tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's
tape" I believe it is, whcih comes in many colors. I found a Tony
Stewart orange which almost matches my plane's orange...close enough
for most purposes.

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 591hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system

On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Jack L Bell wrote:

Quote:


This reminded me of my first in-flight emergency. Kitfox
Model 1, 582 (gray head, both engine and pilot)

A cross-country trip in December. Oddly- it was cold then..
OAT ~28F, Cold enough, in Central Texas.

....
I cranked the heater up (I felt lucky to have it- most don't)
and discovered that I didn't want my leg to touch the door-
even through 2 layers of long handles, I could feel the cold.
Since I'd expected it to be cold, and since I knew that the heater
was, at best, wishful thinking, I spent time taping up some of the
air gaps into the cabin with duct tape prior to takeoff.

Along about Lampasas, I was cold.. and so was the tape. A
piece of it separated at the wing root, and began flapping in
the wind, turning the cabin of the plane into a sounding chamber
for a tuba. First in-flight emergency.. The engine was still
running, even if it did sound as though the muffler had fallen off,
or the prop had thrown a blade. This was LOUD! I was already
lined up
with the runway at Lampasas, although that was not my final
destination.
checked temps.. fine. power.. fine.. WHAT WAS THAT NOISE?? I Finally
isolated it to a flapping piece of duct tape (sticking a fountain pin
through the hole changed the pitch.. and intensity).. and turned
back for
home. Where I removed all duct tape.. never again.

-Jack

> Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more
> forward. I
> think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape
> covering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs,
> but I
> too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around to it
> yet.




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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Windshield fit Reply with quote

darinh wrote:
Rick,

I just completed my fairings (fiberglass) and they are much better than the metal fairings. I used the brown packaging tape (comes off very easily and doesn't leave the adhesive behind) and oil-based modeling clay to get a good form. the glass is simply layed up over the tape and clay. Once it is cured, it can be removed easily using a rubber scraper under the corners. The clay will somewhat adhere to the epoxy but you can scrape most off using a spoon or butter knife and then clean the rest off with mineral spirits or wax remover. The exterior will need a few light coats of filler (unless you are a professional clay sculptor) to smooth it out and fill any pinholes...then a coat or two of primer, wet sand, and topcoat. I also used some thin rubber U-channel from Aircraftspruce and 1/16" neoprene tape to seal the edges. I will get some pics if I remember next time I am at the hanger.


Darin,

I am not clear on how you laid up the fiberglass, did you put it directly into the clay, or over the top ( Female or Male mold ? ) Since you formed fiberglass directly over the clay, what was the brown tape for ??? Did you form the clay over the windshield to get the mold shape ?

Mike


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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Re: Windshield fit Reply with quote

BTW, if it was me, I would get a heat gun, practice on some scraps of that window material, and then melt that window to fit the plane correctly. Yes it is a risk, but I would want a perfect fitting window, and just buy another one if things go horribly wrong.

Mike


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darinh



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Windshield fit Reply with quote

JetPilot wrote:


I am not clear on how you laid up the fiberglass, did you put it directly into the clay, or over the top ( Female or Male mold ? ) Since you formed fiberglass directly over the clay, what was the brown tape for ??? Did you form the clay over the windshield to get the mold shape ?


This would have been a male mold process. The Brown tape was simply to protect the window and provide a "release" mechanism for the fiberglass after it cured. The clay was used only in the "hole" created when the windshield was trimmed. I sculpted the clay to provide a smooth transition from windshield to wing as simply laying tape over the hole and glassing over it would have resulted in a less than pleasing shape to the fairing.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

That must be the same stuff my old flight instructor used to call his "100 mile an hour tape."
Smile

do not archive

Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1


--- On Tue, 11/18/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

Quote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Windshield fit
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 1:13 PM

Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Jack, it sounds like you needed a better brand of duct tape...I'm not
kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when
it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
Spring. You might pull a little paint with it, but that'll keep people from
calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
whcih comes in many colors. I found a Tony Stewart orange which almost matches
my plane's orange...close enough for most purposes.

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 591hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system

On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Jack L Bell wrote:

Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jack L Bell <jack(at)comconn.com>



This reminded me of my first in-flight emergency. Kitfox
Model 1, 582 (gray head, both engine and pilot)

A cross-country trip in December. Oddly- it was cold then..
OAT ~28F, Cold enough, in Central Texas.

....
I cranked the heater up (I felt lucky to have it- most don't)
and discovered that I didn't want my leg to touch the door-
even through 2 layers of long handles, I could feel the cold.
Since I'd expected it to be cold, and since I knew that the heater
was, at best, wishful thinking, I spent time taping up some of the
air gaps into the cabin with duct tape prior to takeoff.

Along about Lampasas, I was cold.. and so was the tape. A
piece of it separated at the wing root, and began flapping in
the wind, turning the cabin of the plane into a sounding chamber
for a tuba. First in-flight emergency.. The engine was still
running, even if it did sound as though the muffler had fallen off,
or the prop had thrown a blade. This was LOUD! I was already lined up
with the runway at Lampasas, although that was not my final destination.
checked temps.. fine. power.. fine.. WHAT WAS THAT NOISE?? I Finally
isolated it to a flapping piece of duct tape (sticking a fountain pin
through the hole changed the pitch.. and intensity).. and turned back for
home. Where I removed all duct tape.. never again.

-Jack

> Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more forward.
I

Quote:
> think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape
> covering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs, but
I

Quote:
> too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around to
it

Quote:
> yet.








[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Marco

How old was your flight instructor. I just used some of that tape on Sunday, but fortunately not on a critical spot. It was 100mph tape, but needed to be 125mph tape.

Duane Rueb, ex, CFI, N24ZM, model 5 IO-240

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:26 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Windshield fit


That must be the same stuff my old flight instructor used to call his "100 mile an hour tape."

Smile



do not archive



Marco Menezes N99KX

Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1



--- On Tue, 11/18/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:
Quote:

From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Windshield fit
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 1:13 PM
Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> Jack, it sounds like you needed a better brand of duct tape...I'm notkidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on whenit's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off untilSpring. You might pull a little paint with it, but that'll keep people fromcalling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regularduct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard timegetting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it istenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when
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kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when
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kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when
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kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when
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kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when
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kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when
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kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is,
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[quote][b]


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Lynn Matteson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

We used to call it 200 mph tape in my drag racing days...so in
effect, I had a 37mph safety margin. : )

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 591hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system
do not archive
On Nov 18, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:

Quote:
That must be the same stuff my old flight instructor used to call
his "100 mile an hour tape."
Smile

do not archive

Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1


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darinh



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Rick,

Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out great.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Darin,

I looked at the photos and honestly, you did an outstanding job! The listers ought to take a look at these photos. I'm encouraged. If mine turn out half as good I'd be pleased.
Thanks,
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL



On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darinh wrote:
[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net (gerns25(at)netscape.net)>

Rick,

Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out great.

--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah


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darinh



Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Rick,

Thanks for the compliments...I am pretty please with how the turned out. I had put this part off for a couple months and went the tape route but with the temps dropping (and an incident where a peice of tape came loose and gave me quite a scare) I decided that now was as good as any to make the fairings. Fiberglass is a great medium to work with...just make sure you protect the area you are working and make sure you have a good release agent (brown packaging tape in this instance). Clean up any epoxy drips before it cures also. Have fun.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Darin, good looking fairings

John Kerr

[quote]-------------- Original message --------------
From: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>

Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh"

Rick,

Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out
great.

--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

Dean

you did a really nice job of those fairings

Gary Algate
Classic 4 jab 2200


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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <gerns25(at)netscape.net>

Rick,

Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out great.

--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Windshield fit Reply with quote

On Wed, November 19, 2008 10:16 am, darinh wrote:
Quote:


Quote:
Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out great.

Wow! Super nice work!

How many layers of cloth? What filler did you use? Epoxy?

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Cell 425.241.1618


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