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torque on various bolts

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cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: torque on various bolts

I am replacing the rubber engine mounts for my Rotax 503 on my Mark II.  Travis is sending me the new mounts.  I thought I'd ask you guys what I should be torquing those bolts to (that mount the engine on-not the mount itself).  The bolts are AN6-27A.



I'm also going to replace the bolts and nuts on my propeller.  I found in my paperwork somewhere that they should be torqued to 110 in lbs.  Does that sound right?  Those bolts are AN5-34A and I have a 66" wood prop in case you're wondering.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: torque on various bolts

 	  cristalclear13 wrote: 	
		  



====SNIP+++++

I'm also going to replace the bolts and nuts on my propeller.  I found in my paperwork somewhere that they should be torqued to 110 in lbs.  Does that sound right?  Those bolts are AN5-34A and I have a 66" wood prop in case you're wondering. 	




Cristal:

Check with your prop manufacturer.  It may vary mfg to mfg.



e.g. TPI with AN5 bolts calls for 144" lbs +/-15" lbs.

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts

Cristal,

    Don't forget that almost all torque values  are listed in inch pounds. I don't know about yours, but my torque wrench is  measured in foot pounds. 110 inch pounds converts to 9.16 foot pounds. Google  inch pounds to foot pounds to get a converter to use.

 Larry C

 [quote]   ---

_________________
do not archive

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts

Cristal... here is a link on my web sight that gives the torque values on

bolts. Taken from the Advisory Circular   ac 43.13-1B  acceptable methods,

Techniques, and practices--- Aircraft inspection and repair  sept 8 1998.

Dept of Transportaion, FAA  flight standard service regulatory support

division.



http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/torque.jpg 



prop manufactures may have specific torque requirements.



Boyd Young

Kolb MkIIIC

Brigham City Ut



Please archive.



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	




I am replacing the rubber engine mounts for my Rotax 503 on my Mark II.

Travis is sending me the new mounts.  I thought I'd ask you guys what I

should be torquing those bolts to (that mount the engine on-not the mount

itself).  The bolts are AN6-27A.



I'm also going to replace the bolts and nuts on my propeller.  I found in my

paperwork somewhere that they should be torqued to 110 in lbs.  Does that

sound right?  Those bolts are AN5-34A and I have a 66" wood prop in case

you're wondering.



--------

Cristal Waters

Kolb Mark II Twinstar

Rotax 503 DCSI

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts

Hey,  forget google.It is not that difficult.    Just take inch pounds  and divide by 12 to get foot pounds.

Gene

On Nov 21, 2008, at 6:20 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:

[quote] Google inch pounds to foot pounds to get a converter to use.[b]

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts

Ditto on use your prop makers spec when torquing the prop bolts.In these days of tools available from darn near everywhere there's no excuse for using a ft. lb. torque wrench to do in. lb. measures, especially trying to do 9 ft. lb. to 12 ft. lb. Get a good 3/8" drive torque wrench calibrated in in. lb. Whether it's a beam type or a click stop type is up to you. If you're unsure try to borrow one and see which you like.

 A word about wood props. Wood swells and shrinks with the moisture content of the wood. This causes the prop bolt torque to change, mostly on the loosen up side of things. Bad, very bad. Losing a prop or worse, part of a prop can just ruin your whole day. One way to ameliorate the effects of moisture content is the use of spring washers (otherwise known as Belleville washers) between the bolt head and the cover plate for the prop.

 



http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/awb/61/007.pdf

has a decent discussion of the use of Belleville washers. Try McMaster Carr:

 



http://www.mcmaster.com/

pages 1195 to 1197 as a source for them.

Rick



On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 7:14 PM, boyd <by0ung(at)brigham.net (by0ung(at)brigham.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd" <by0ung(at)brigham.net (by0ung(at)brigham.net)>

  

 Cristal... here is a link on my web sight that gives the torque values on

 bolts. Taken from the Advisory Circular   ac 43.13-1B  acceptable methods,

 Techniques, and practices--- Aircraft inspection and repair  sept 8 1998.

 Dept of Transportaion, FAA  flight standard service regulatory support

 division.

 

 http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/torque.jpg

 

 prop manufactures may have specific torque requirements.

 

 Boyd Young

 Kolb MkIIIC

 Brigham City Ut

 

 Please archive.

 

 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

 I am replacing the rubber engine mounts for my Rotax 503 on my Mark II.

 Travis is sending me the new mounts.  I thought I'd ask you guys what I

 should be torquing those bolts to (that mount the engine on-not the mount

 itself).  The bolts are AN6-27A.

 

 I'm also going to replace the bolts and nuts on my propeller.  I found in my

 paperwork somewhere that they should be torqued to 110 in lbs.  Does that

 sound right?  Those bolts are AN5-34A and I have a 66" wood prop in case

 you're wondering.

 

 --------

 Cristal Waters

 Kolb Mark II Twinstar

 Rotax 503 DCSI

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



[b]

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts

Gene,

    I though so too, until I Googled it. I then  found that 

                         1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot        pounds                    More        about calculator.

 And Rick, I have looked at all the local shops, not on the computer, and  have yet to find a torque wrench that measures inch pounds, for less than  $75.00. For that much I will do the conversion. Is too cheap a reason? 

 Larry C Oregon

  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
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icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: Re: torque on various bolts

This chart only goes up to 90,000psi bolts yet Aircraft Spruce lists AN hardware (at) 120,000psi. Anyone have a chart for 120,000psi bolts?



BTW, Warp shows AN 5 prop mounting bolts to be torqued to 200 inch/pounds.



[quote="by0ung(at)brigham.net"]Cristal... here is a link on my web sight that gives the torque values on

bolts. Taken from the Advisory Circular   ac 43.13-1B  acceptable methods,

Techniques, and practices--- Aircraft inspection and repair  sept 8 1998.

Dept of Transportaion, FAA  flight standard service regulatory support

division.



http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/torque.jpg 



prop manufactures may have specific torque requirements.



Boyd Young

Kolb MkIIIC

Brigham City Ut



Please archive.



[quote

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: torque on various bolts

Correct, 

 1 inch pound divided by 12, = 0.0833333333333 foot pound 12 inch pounds divided by 12 =  1 foot pound

240 inch pounds divided by 12 = 20 foot pounds

etc.

Gene

On Nov 22, 2008, at 12:17 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:

[quote]Gene,

   I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that

1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds  More about calculator.

And Rick, I have looked at all the local shops, not on the computer, and have yet to find a torque wrench that measures inch pounds, for less than $75.00. For that much I will do the conversion. Is too cheap a reason?

Larry C Oregon

 

 

[quote]---

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: torque on various bolts

Larry,  Auto Zone has a Great Neck 3/8 in. drive micrometer torque wrench........$21.99Sears has a Craftsman beam type for $24.99

Rick



 

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Eugene Zimmerman <ez(at)embarqmail.com (ez(at)embarqmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]Correct, 

 1 inch pound divided by 12, = 0.0833333333333 foot pound  12 inch pounds divided by 12 =  1 foot pound

240 inch pounds divided by 12 = 20 foot pounds

etc.

Gene

 On Nov 22, 2008, at 12:17 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:



[quote] Gene,

   I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that

1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds   More about calculator. 

And Rick, I have looked at all the local shops, not on the computer, and have yet to find a torque wrench that measures inch pounds, for less than $75.00. For that much I will do the conversion. Is too cheap a reason?

 Larry C Oregon

 

 

[quote] ---

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: torque on various bolts

Harbor fright has one for $20.  I have a chinese cheepie that I use all the time.I reference checked it for accuracy and it was quite accurate.  In the AF they made a

big deal out of recalibrating them but this one stays the same.

BB

On 22, Nov 2008, at 12:17 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:

[quote]Gene,

   I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that

1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds  More about calculator.

And Rick, I have looked at all the local shops, not on the computer, and have yet to find a torque wrench that measures inch pounds, for less than $75.00. For that much I will do the conversion. Is too cheap a reason?

Larry C Oregon

 

 

[quote]---

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: torque on various bolts

It is not that difficult.    Just take inch pounds  and divide by 12 to get foot pounds.  

   

   

I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that           

          1   inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds        

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   

   
	


   

It is the inverse of the same formula  

   

   

110 x 0.083333333333 = 9.17  

   

110 / 12 = 9.17  

   

For me I can remember that there is 12 inches in a foot easier than I can remember 0.0833333333  

   

Boyd Young  

MKIII C  

   

       [quote][b]

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: torque on various bolts

This chart only goes up to 90,000psi bolts yet Aircraft Spruce lists AN

hardware (at) 120,000psi. Anyone have a chart for 120,000psi bolts?



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


I checked the book and there is not a page 2 to the chart...  



Boyd Young



Do not archive.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: torque on various bolts

At 06:59 AM 11/22/2008, icrashrc wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



This chart only goes up to 90,000psi bolts yet Aircraft Spruce lists AN 

hardware (at) 120,000psi. Anyone have a chart for 120,000psi bolts?



BTW, Warp shows AN 5 prop mounting bolts to be torqued to 200 inch/pounds.


	


The values in that chart are NOT suitable for propeller bolts!  Prop bolt 

torques are based on the required force to properly clamp the prop without 

crushing it, which will be different depending on the prop 

construction.  Use the manufacturer's recommended torque values and nothing 

else.



For wood props, here's a good writeup from Sensenich:

http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/aircraft_cet/install/cf-a.pdf



-Dana

--

  Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys 

to teenage boys.

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts

Correct, 

 1 inch pound divided by 12, = 0.0833333333333 foot pound 12 inch pounds divided by 12 =  1 foot pound

240 inch pounds divided by 12 = 20 foot pounds

etc.

Gene 





On Nov 22, 2008, at 11:25 AM, boyd wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  It is not that difficult.    Just take inch pounds  and divide by 12 to get foot pounds.

 

 

I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that

 

1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 

 

 

It is the inverse of the same formula

 

 

110 x 0.083333333333 = 9.17

 

110 / 12 = 9.17

 

For me I can remember that there is 12 inches in a foot easier than I can remember 0.0833333333

 

Boyd Young

MKIII C

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/contribution

style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com

	


	




 [quote][b]

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: torque on various bolts

Dana,



Sorry, i guess i wasn't clear. Cristals original question asked about both AN hardware for motor mounts AND prop mounting hardware. I aksed for a chart suitable for AN hardware as Aircraft Spruce lists it AND gave an example of what one particular prop manufacturer specs. She's already been told more than once in posts previous to mine that the prop manufacturer specs the proper torque value for thier prop. I guess i should have left the Warp example out of my post so as not to confuse you.



Scott



do not archive



[quote="Dana"]At 06:59 AM 11/22/2008, icrashrc wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



This chart only goes up to 90,000psi bolts yet Aircraft Spruce lists AN 

hardware (at) 120,000psi. Anyone have a chart for 120,000psi bolts?



BTW, Warp shows AN 5 prop mounting bolts to be torqued to 200 inch/pounds.



	


The values in that chart are NOT suitable for propeller bolts!  Prop bolt 

torques are based on the required force to properly clamp the prop without 

crushing it, which will be different depending on the prop 

construction.  Use the manufacturer's recommended torque values and nothing 

else.



For wood props, here's a good writeup from Sensenich:

http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/aircraft_cet/install/cf-a.pdf



-Dana

--

  quote]

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: Re: torque on various bolts

Hey, I found an old letter from Kolb dated April 24, 1989 in some of the paperwork I got with my plane when I bought it.  It says:



"The standard propeller supplied with the kit (66" dia., 2 blade wooden prop) should be torqued to 120 in.lbs - no more and no less.  Too little torque results in a propeller that does not have enough friction with the hub to drive the prop, which results in the bolts taking the hammering from the drive pulses from the engine.  They eventually will be sheared.  Too much tension and the wood will be crushed, which again will make it more likely that the prop bolts will come loose with the same results.  In a proper installation the prop bolts should serve only to provide clamping pressure between the prop and the hub - they ideally should not be exposed to any shear (twisting) type loads.  The friction between the prop and the hub should transmit 100% of the torque of the engine."



They gave this warning after some bolts broke on a Mark II.



I've come to the conclusion that my prop manufacturer has gone out of business and since I have no information about my prop I'll have to go by that newsletter I found stating to use 120 in.lbs (unless anyone knows of any updates since 1989).  The sticker on the prop says "Precision Propellers, Inc." and has a toll-free number, but when I call that number a lady answers that has never heard of them.  When I search for them on the internet I found an old telephone number that is out of service and no internet site is available for them.



Concerning the engine mount bolts...I am aware of the 43-13B chart because I took the inspection class, but my concern was that the engine mount bolts might be an exception similar to the prop bolts.  If they are not an exception then I'll just go by the chart.



Thanks to all for your replies.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: torque on various bolts

Cristal



I think someone else mentioned it before but... be sure to retorque your 

prop bolts every time there are big changes in temperature or humidity. Wood 

props shrink and swell with these changes. I lost a prop once because I 

didn't know I need to retorque the bolts.



Seems like the instructions were to remove the torque allow the wood to 

relax for a few minutes then retorque.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



---

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