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To drag the tail or not.

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linkin(at)telkomsa.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

Subject: To drag the tail or not.



 



 I'm in the early stages of scratch building an  601 XL - The intent is to visit bush areas to hike around the country  ( I chose the 601 over the 701 merely from the point of view that the cruise  speed provides a better weekend range radius). The question begs to be  answered should I build it with the training wheel on the tail?  I learnt  to fly on military taildraggers so am not intimidated - but seeing as the  plane looks just as sexy with a nose wheel, I was wondering whether there are  any stories of strength concerns with the nosewheel set up in rough airfield  conditions? 

 Ivor Link

 South Africa

   [quote][b]

MikeinPE

Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 13

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: Re: To drag the tail or not.

Nice to see a fellow South African on board. I ordered plans for the 650 3 weeks ago. Will also scratch build. Whereabouts are you from? I do think that the 601 looks good either way. I will build nose wheel as I will still have to find time to get my pilots licence somewhere between now & by the time that the 650 is finished. I have picked up from others that this is the easier way to fly.



Enjoy building!!!!



Mike

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

Hi Ivor,

I've a great appreciation for the tail dragger as I started with PA-12 

and then a Luscombe 8A. The nose gear offers a better steering option in 

rough conditions

than the tail dragger. I know what it's like to have to gun it to break 

the tail loose from a bundle of grass or gravel.  The positive steering 

of the nose gear is much

like the little red wagon for positive direction.  You can't pivot about 

one gear like the brake assist tail dragger, but you can plan better for 

maneuvering and you don't

have the shock of the tailwheel hammering back thru the fuselage.  When 

you're parked and tied down, the aircraft is better aligned with the 

breezes too, so for my

money, the best dollar is spent on having the extra wheel up front.  I 

always land on the mains, slow a lot and then let down carefully on the 

nose gear, so it shouldn't

be a problem.  Having the rudder and the nose wheel tied together is 

sweet, but I don't use the rudder in normal flight. That might be 

different in the XL.

Best regards,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

do not archive



Ivor Link wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

 *Subject:* To drag the tail or not.

 I'm in the early stages of scratch building an 601 XL - The intent is 

 to visit bush areas to hike around the country ( I chose the 601 over 

 the 701 merely from the point of view that the cruise speed provides a 

 better weekend range radius). The question begs to be answered should 

 I build it with the training wheel on the tail?  I learnt to fly on 

 military taildraggers so am not intimidated - but seeing as the plane 

 looks just as sexy with a nose wheel, I was wondering whether there 

 are any stories of strength concerns with the nosewheel set up in 

 rough airfield conditions? 

 Ivor Link

 South Africa

leo(at)zuehlfield.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

Ivor,  Take a look at Alaskan bush planes - those not on floats.  Tail 

Draggers.



-- 

Leo Gates

N601Z - CH601HDS TDO

Rotax 912UL



Ivor Link wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    

 *Subject:* To drag the tail or not.



 I'm in the early stages of scratch building an 601 XL - The intent is 

 to visit bush areas to hike around the country ( I chose the 601 over 

 the 701 merely from the point of view that the cruise speed provides a 

 better weekend range radius). The question begs to be answered should 

 I build it with the training wheel on the tail?

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

Yeah, but those bush planes were designed as taildraggers.  The 601XL was designed as a tri-gear, adapted to taildragger.

 

 Jay in Dallas

 Do not archive

 

   

 

   

 

 --

leo(at)zuehlfield.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

FLAME - In 1998 the Mexico factory demo HDS was a _tail dragger._  I was 

told that the nose gear

was an option.



Leo Gates



jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:

[quote] Yeah, but those bush planes were designed as taildraggers.  The 601XL 

 was designed as a tri-gear, /adapted/ to taildragger.



 Jay in Dallas

 Do not archive

 --

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

Ivor,

 If you go with the trike approach, and considering  your description of rough field you plan to visit, I would recommend beefing up  the upper nosegear bearing support area.  I'd make it of heavier guage,  with significantly more stiffening to prevent the buckling that has happened to  a number of us.

 Tailwinds. 

 Dave Austin  601HDS -  912

    [quote][b]

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

Dave



 Do you have any descriptions and/or photos or links to such of the beefing up that you mention? I'm committed to the trike, but I would like to access some of the back country strips in western MT.



 Terry



 

 At 09:19 AM 11/29/2008 -0500, Dave Austin wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Ivor,

 If you go with the trike approach, and considering your description of rough field you plan to visit, I would recommend beefing up the upper nosegear bearing support area.  I'd make it of heavier guage, with significantly more stiffening to prevent the buckling that has happened to a number of us.

 Tailwinds. 

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912 	
 

 

 Terry Phillips  ZBAGer

 ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

 Corvallis MT

 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings

 http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/     [quote][b]

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

I do believe the updated current dwgs for the 601XL  show "beef ups" to the upper bearing support firewall top stiffener, 6B7-1. (I  found the flange cracked, probably from the beating it received from the  pounding of the 6G2-3 nose strut stop plate, at about 300 landings)  I also  believe the nose gear firewall support channel 6B8-7 support structure has been  beefed up at the upper and lower bearing support areas  I have subsequently  beefed up these areas..  (The dwg package I built from was dated  06/03).

  

 As to nose or tail dragger - I went to 600x6  main and nose wheels/tires/brakes with an 801 nose fork.  When I ordered my  kit,  I asked Zenith to supply the bigger wheels etc so I would have a  larger rough field footprint.  My farm field is pretty  rough.

 I probably lose a few knots in cruise, but only a  few at the airspeeds that the XL flies (but I did take it to 195 mph IAS in  Phase one)

 The major downside is a weight gain of probably 8 -  12 lbs.

  

 Tony Graziano

 601XL/Jab; N493TG; 448 hrs

  

 [quote]   ---

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

Terry,

 Mine was a 1993 edition and the upper bearing  "Z" piece buckled along its length - no pics.

 I straightened it out and added an "L" piece at  each end on the diagonal.  That helped, but did not really solve the  problem.

 I think the firewall must be distorting to a  degree, which causes the twist.  I'd put a 40 thou "L" across against the  firewall underneath the "Z" a 25 thou "L" along the front of the "Z" piece,  taking it round the corner to stiffen the diagonal shape.

 If I recall the "Z" piece is only 25 thou.   I'd go 40 thou.

 Dave Austin  601HDS -  912

    [quote][b]

A.F.RUPP(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

On Saturday 29 November 2008 10:14, Sabrina wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 see attached...





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 16870#216870





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/6oz_of_beef_183.jpg




	


I'm not sure where the problem lies, but attempting to access the attachment 

resulted in an error. At first I thought it was the double slash "//" after 

the .com, but i tried making it a single slash, and still got an error.

==============================================

Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

=================================================

A.F.RUPP(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: To drag the tail or not.

Terry,

On the XL updates 3rd edition 2nd revision Aug 25, 05 drawings or later the nose gear and firewall is beefed up. Zenith did this in case the aircraft is used for instruction.

Al Rupp

601XL Corvair

Dave



Do you have any descriptions and/or photos or links to such of the beefing up that you mention? I'm committed to the trike, but I would like to access some of the back country strips in western MT.

Terry

At 09:19 AM 11/29/2008 -0500, Dave Austin wrote:



Ivor,

If you go with the trike approach, and considering your description of rough field you plan to visit, I would recommend beefing up the upper nosegear bearing support area.  I'd make it of heavier guage, with significantly more stiffening to prevent the buckling that has happened to a number of us.

Tailwinds. 

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912

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