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Humidity when painting

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dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Humidity when painting

Can someone tell me what the highest humidity percentage would be to still paint the Polly products? We are at 68% right now and I have blush retarder on hand...Just didn't want to spin my wheels.

Thanks,

Dan B

Mesa, AZ

KF-912s

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Humidity when painting

70%, according to my "Polly" manual.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>



 Can someone tell me what the highest humidity percentage would be  

 to still paint the Polly products? We are at 68% right now and I  

 have blush retarder on hand...Just didn't want to spin my wheels.

 Thanks,

 Dan B

 Mesa, AZ

 KF-912s

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Humidity when painting

Thanks Lynn, I couldn't find a percentage...I just found an indication not to spray in high humidity. Anyone else actually spray paint when this humid? The temp is a nice 66 degrees.

Dan

--- On Thu, 11/27/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Subject: Re: Humidity when painting

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 2:46 PM

 

 <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 70%, according to my "Polly" manual.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire

 ignition  

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 

 

 

 

 On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:

 

 > 

 

 > <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>

 >

 > Can someone tell me what the highest humidity

 percentage would be  

 > to still paint the Polly products? We are at 68% right

 now and I  

 > have blush retarder on hand...Just didn't want to

 spin my wheels.

 > Thanks,

 > Dan B

 > Mesa, AZ

 > KF-912s

 >

 >

 >

 >

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: Humidity when painting

Dan-



I just looked for at least one of my two manuals, but couldn't find  

either...one is at the hangar...I'm almost absolutely positive that  

the figure is 70%. I seem to recall that it says something to the  

effect that "if it's over 70% humidity, find something else to do".   

I know that when I painted my plane, I measured humidity and avoided  

anything over 70%, and when I absolutely needed to finish a coat or  

whatever, I'd bring in the dehumidifier....my paint "booth" was about  

8' x 8' x 24', so it didn't take long to bring it down. On the other  

hand, I sometimes needed to wet the floor to bring it up to avoid  

static electricity. I hung a length of copper braid from the metal  

parts down to the floor to ground out any static build-up. You may  

laugh, but I actually stuck a length of copper braid inside my sock,  

and out onto the floor so I didn't get a poke when I walked around  

and touched the metal parts. Such is painting in Michigan in the   

Spring.



You could also use a blush retarder...Poly Fiber BR-8600....which  

says on the can to "slow down the drying time." I seem to recall that  

if the paint dries to fast, the humidity in the air will  cause the  

paint to "blush", which is the humidity showing up on the paint  

surface. I can't recall all this from memory, and always look it up  

just before I actually paint.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>



 Thanks Lynn, I couldn't find a percentage...I just found an  

 indication not to spray in high humidity. Anyone else actually  

 spray paint when this humid? The temp is a nice 66 degrees.

 Dan

 --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:



> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

> Subject: Re: Humidity when painting

> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

> Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 2:46 PM

> 

> <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

>

> 70%, according to my "Polly" manual.

>

> Lynn Matteson

> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs

> Sensenich 62x46

> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire

> ignition

> system;

> also building a new pair of snow skis

>

>

> On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:

>

>> 

>

>> <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>

>>

>> Can someone tell me what the highest humidity

> percentage would be

>> to still paint the Polly products? We are at 68% right

> now and I

>> have blush retarder on hand...Just didn't want to

> spin my wheels.

>> Thanks,

>> Dan B

>> Mesa, AZ

>> KF-912s

>>

>>

>>

>>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: Humidity when painting

On Thu, November 27, 2008 1:52 pm, Dan Billingsley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks Lynn, I couldn't find a percentage...I just found an indication not to spray in

 high humidity. Anyone else actually spray paint when this humid? The temp is a nice 66

 degrees.

The relative humidity will drop considerably in your paint boot with all the lights as
	


the temperature will be warmer but there is the same amount of absolute humidity but

the relative humidity will drop with increasing temperature.



Since you're in the allowable range now, warming the air will make it better.



There is some variation for the type of painting you're doing too, that is, airless,

HVLP, or air pot. Double check the manuals that came with your paint gun.



The reason you are concerned at all with humidity is that when the compressed air

expands and some of the solvent evaporates, both cool the spray. If the spray

temperature is below the dew point of the surrounding air, then you get orange peel

effect on the painted surface. So if you're using a compressed air type application be

sure you have a drier in the air supply too.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

Paul,

Thanks for the tips. I will be diving into it today.

Dan

--- On Thu, 11/27/08, Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul(at)eucleides.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul(at)eucleides.com>

 Subject: Re: Humidity when painting

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 8:03 PM

 

 Merlin GT" <paul(at)eucleides.com>

 

 On Thu, November 27, 2008 1:52 pm, Dan Billingsley wrote:

 > 

 <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>

 >

 > Thanks Lynn, I couldn't find a percentage...I just

 found an indication not to spray in

 > high humidity. Anyone else actually spray paint when

 this humid? The temp is a nice 66

 > degrees.

 The relative humidity will drop considerably in your paint

 boot with all the lights as

 the temperature will be warmer but there is the same amount

 of absolute humidity but

 the relative humidity will drop with increasing

 temperature.

 

 Since you're in the allowable range now, warming the

 air will make it better.

 

 There is some variation for the type of painting you're

 doing too, that is, airless,

 HVLP, or air pot. Double check the manuals that came with

 your paint gun.

 

 The reason you are concerned at all with humidity is that

 when the compressed air

 expands and some of the solvent evaporates, both cool the

 spray. If the spray

 temperature is below the dew point of the surrounding air,

 then you get orange peel

 effect on the painted surface. So if you're using a

 compressed air type application be

 sure you have a drier in the air supply too.

 

 -- 

 Paul A. Franz

 Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

 Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

 Bellevue WA

 425.241.1618 Cell

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

Lynn:



Two minor problems...  concrete is an insulator...  that's why they put

ground rods down through concrete and ski lift towers have separate grounds.

The other thing is a lot of hangars have epoxy finish on the floor...  Epoxy

can build and hold a static charge.  Wetting things down works well but not

for applying dope.



I liked the idea of the braid in your shoe.. do you have a hole in your shoe

to put the braid out through?

Noel Loveys

AME Intern, RPP

912 almost installed

Aerocet 1100 floats



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

Lynn and Noel,

I was having a little static buildup in the  wings a while back and I tried several things with limited success. McBean suggested I put a ground wire on the spar. I attached the other end to the center screw on an outlet box. I had a few tapes cut and laid across the wing and within a minute, most of them slid off onto the ground. 

--- On Fri, 11/28/08, Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:



[quote] From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>

 Subject: RE: Humidity when painting

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 7:54 AM

 

 Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>

 

 Lynn:

 

 Two minor problems...  concrete is an insulator... 

 that's why they put

 ground rods down through concrete and ski lift towers have

 separate grounds.

 The other thing is a lot of hangars have epoxy finish on

 the floor...  Epoxy

 can build and hold a static charge.  Wetting things down

 works well but not

 for applying dope.

 

 I liked the idea of the braid in your shoe.. do you have a

 hole in your shoe

 to put the braid out through?

 

 

 Noel Loveys

 AME Intern, RPP

 912 almost installed

 Aerocet 1100 floats

 

 

 

 --

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

All I know is that before I used the copper braid thing, I could be  

wiping down the wing, for example, and get a good poke when I'd touch  

the spar. After I attached the braid, no more shocks. So after I did  

this I left a length of the braid bolted right to the wing attaching  

hole in the spar, and the other end was always in contact with the  

ground/concrete floor.



Regarding the braid in the shoe thing....I just took my sock off and  

stuck the braid into the sock, re"installed" the sock and let the  

braid lay alongside my ankle, up over the top of the sock, and out  

onto the floor. So in effect, I was standing on the braid with  

somewhat humid bare feet, so I was in pretty good contact with it.



I don't know about Newfoundland, but here in Michigan, it gets to a  

point that if you don't have some humidity going, in the house for  

example, and I've got the wood-burner going, when I get out of my  

chair to feed the fire, I'd better slap the steel door with my hand  

before I touch it, or I'll get a surprise shock. If I slap it first,  

the pain of the slap masks the shock. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Nov 28, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 Lynn:



 Two minor problems...  concrete is an insulator...  that's why they  

 put

 ground rods down through concrete and ski lift towers have separate  

 grounds.

 The other thing is a lot of hangars have epoxy finish on the  

 floor...  Epoxy

 can build and hold a static charge.  Wetting things down works well  

 but not

 for applying dope.



 I liked the idea of the braid in your shoe.. do you have a hole in  

 your shoe

 to put the braid out through?

 Noel Loveys

 AME Intern, RPP

 912 almost installed

 Aerocet 1100 floats



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

Damn gravity!



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Nov 28, 2008, at 11:16 AM, Dan Billingsley wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>



 Lynn and Noel,

 I was having a little static buildup in the  wings a while back and  

 I tried several things with limited success. McBean suggested I put  

 a ground wire on the spar. I attached the other end to the center  

 screw on an outlet box. I had a few tapes cut and laid across the  

 wing and within a minute, most of them slid off onto the ground.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

On Fri, November 28, 2008 6:54 am, Noel Loveys wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Two minor problems...  concrete is an insulator...  that's why they put

 ground rods down through concrete and ski lift towers have separate grounds.


	


Ever rub a balloon on your hair and stick it on something like someone's shirt? Well,

the balloon, your hair and the shirt are all insulators. They sure do accept a charge

though. Concrete will accept that very high voltage charge too.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

Lynn: 



Put a kettle on the wood burner.  That increases the humidity enough to keep

the static down.  Once the temp drops below -5C I start to get the zaps too.

Sometimes even the slap won't hide the snap of a well built up charge 



The idea of grounding the spar to the ground of a receptacle sounds like a

good one to me.  You can keep it dry and still spray the dope.

Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

Ever rub a fluorescent tube on your shirt in the winter in the  

dark...it will glow faintly....best not to try it with an 8-footer  

though.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Nov 28, 2008, at 12:41 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <paul(at)eucleides.com>



 On Fri, November 28, 2008 6:54 am, Noel Loveys wrote:

> 

> <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>



> Two minor problems...  concrete is an insulator...  that's why  

> they put

> ground rods down through concrete and ski lift towers have  

> separate grounds.



 Ever rub a balloon on your hair and stick it on something like  

 someone's shirt? Well,

 the balloon, your hair and the shirt are all insulators. They sure  

 do accept a charge

 though. Concrete will accept that very high voltage charge too.



 -- 

 Paul A. Franz

 Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

 Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

 Bellevue WA

 425.241.1618 Cell

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

What's a heater?  What's static electricity?

 

Pete

El Paso, TX

We don't need no stinkin heat.



--- On Fri, 11/28/08, Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca> wrote:



From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>

Subject: RE: Humidity when painting

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 11:22 AM




<noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>



Lynn: 



Put a kettle on the wood burner.  That increases the humidity enough to keep

the static down.  Once the temp drops below -5C I start to get the zaps too

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: Humidity when painting

Lynn: 

Just for fun have someone key the transmitter on your plane while you hold a

fluorescent tube a couple of feet away from the antenna.  You will be

surprised how far away from the antenna you will get before the light goes

out.  This can be used as a subjective assessment of the power output of

your radio.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Humidity when painting

When I worked ATC for many years, for some reason the control towers were 

very prone to extremely dry air, especially in winter.  We had a habit of 

carrying a key around in our hand and when we would walk across the room, 

before touching anything else, we would touch some metal with the key to 

release our static charge.  Often there would be fairly large arc with a 

loud pop from the key to the metal.  By using the key (or any other piece of 

metal), there was no discomfort.  A good way to get someone riled up was to 

discharge it on someone's ear.

Deke

do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		   Regarding the braid in the shoe thing....I just took my sock off and 

 stuck the braid into the sock, re"installed" the sock and let the  braid 

 lay alongside my ankle, up over the top of the sock, and out  onto the 

 floor. So in effect, I was standing on the braid with  somewhat humid bare 

 feet, so I was in pretty good contact with it.



 I don't know about Newfoundland, but here in Michigan, it gets to a  point 

 that if you don't have some humidity going, in the house for  example, and 

 I've got the wood-burner going, when I get out of my  chair to feed the 

 fire, I'd better slap the steel door with my hand  before I touch it, or 

 I'll get a surprise shock. If I slap it first,  the pain of the slap masks 

 the shock. : )



 Lynn Matteson

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: Humidity when painting

I knew there was something I was forgetting...when I get out of my  

Laz-E-Boy (sp?) to attend the wood fire (in the house), I carry my  

fingernail clippers or keys or something to discharge the static on  

the metal handle of the wood stove.  I see a spark about a quarter- 

inch long when I do this. With a humidifier going this year, I  

haven't had this fun (?) experience so far. Just for the record, it's  

52% out, and 35% inside right now. This all reminds me to be extra  

sure to ground the plane when I fill the tanks from my hangar bulk  

tank...this should of course serve as a reminder to all Kitfox owners  

and operators to be sure to do the same when filling wherever the  

filling takes place.  (see, I remembered, Guy and Mike   I could  

sense you were about to pull the plug on this one)



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Nov 28, 2008, at 3:20 PM, fox5flyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 When I worked ATC for many years, for some reason the control  

 towers were very prone to extremely dry air, especially in winter.   

 We had a habit of carrying a key around in our hand and when we  

 would walk across the room, before touching anything else, we would  

 touch some metal with the key to release our static charge.  Often  

 there would be fairly large arc with a loud pop from the key to the  

 metal.  By using the key (or any other piece of metal), there was  

 no discomfort.  A good way to get someone riled up was to discharge  

 it on someone's ear.

 Deke

 do not archive



> Regarding the braid in the shoe thing....I just took my sock off  

> and stuck the braid into the sock, re"installed" the sock and let  

> the  braid lay alongside my ankle, up over the top of the sock,  

> and out  onto the floor. So in effect, I was standing on the braid  

> with  somewhat humid bare feet, so I was in pretty good contact  

> with it.

>

> I don't know about Newfoundland, but here in Michigan, it gets to  

> a  point that if you don't have some humidity going, in the house  

> for  example, and I've got the wood-burner going, when I get out  

> of my  chair to feed the fire, I'd better slap the steel door with  

> my hand  before I touch it, or I'll get a surprise shock. If I  

> slap it first,  the pain of the slap masks the shock. : )

>

> Lynn Matteson

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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