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582/Bing 54 mixture control?

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815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

Hey all,

Still trying to learn things about my plane before I start serious training in it.  It has a mixture control setup on it, but I can't seem to find any information on how this setup works, or what it does exactly.  It would be nice to know how it works, and what it is actually doing when I adjust it.  So far, i have not found any information on the internet about it.  If anyone has any info, or can point me to a location with info, it would be appreciacted.



The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I believe, and CCW to richen.  It has a couple of hoses that are routed to the carbs.  I assume that by adjusting it, it changes the pressure in the float bowl or something.



Any info would be appreciated.



Andrew

Kitfox II, Rotax 582, 815TL

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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

Hi Andrew.

  

 Sounds like you're describing the HAC Man system by GreenSky Adventures. Check their website for all you want to know

  

 Operationally, set the knob at full rich (right) for start-up and take off. After that, lean to keep EGT's at optimal levels (1100-1150 degrees). It's simple and it works!

  

 Marco Menezes N99KX

 Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1



--- On Mon, 12/1/08, 815TL <lawrenceaw(at)corning.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: 815TL <lawrenceaw(at)corning.com>

Subject: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:31 AM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "815TL"

<lawrenceaw(at)corning.com>



Hey all,

Still trying to learn things about my plane before I start serious training in

it.  It has a mixture control setup on it, but I can't seem to find any

information on how this setup works, or what it does exactly.  It would be nice

to know how it works, and what it is actually doing when I adjust it.  So far, i

have not found any information on the internet about it.  If anyone has any

info, or can point me to a location with info, it would be appreciacted.



The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I believe, and

CCW to richen.  It has a couple of hoses that are routed to the carbs.  I assume

that by adjusting it, it changes the pressure in the float bowl or something.



Any info would be appreciated.



Andrew

Kitfox II, Rotax 582, 815TL





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 17135#217135





	
	


         [quote][b]

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paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

On Mon, December 1, 2008 4:31 am, 815TL wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Any info would be appreciated.


	


Make sure you completely understand the operator's manual for your engine!



<http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d04085.pdf>



When you get that mastered, all of the rest of the manuals, everything from service

and overhaul to maintenance procedures can also be downloaded.



<http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/a_searchdoc.aspx>



You might have the one I've seen advertised in EAA publications made by Green Sky

Adventures in Florida. Here's a link to a couple of articles about using their system:



<http://www.greenskyadventures.com/bing/articleLeadIn.htm>



If that looks like the one you have, you should get their operator's manual too.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

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815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

That sounds like it!  Mine is the manual version, I had seen the automatic version before, but did not know that they made a manual version of it.



Thanks guys!  I will check with them and see if they can point me towards the manual.  



I have been getting up to speed on the motor and stuff, this was one of the few things I could not find any info on.  



Paul, thanks for the advice.  I have wonloaded, printed and bound all those manuals for the Rotax 582, and have been through them all a couple of times.  I want to know what I am flying behind.  



Andrew

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corbob13

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Pulaski, WI

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

Andrew,

Is there a cable routed into the top of each carburetor?  If so it could be an Arctic Sparrow setup.  That's the setup that came on my aircraft.  In general it works okay, but I have some issues that I'll be posting shortly in another thread.  If you do have the Arctic Sparrow mixture control you vary the height of the mixture needle with the two knobs sticking out of somewhere in the panel, one knob per carb.  Adjusting the carb in this way is similar to changing the jet or needle on the fly.  Can you post some photos so we can help you verify which system you have?

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_________________
Cory

N903DB
Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

I believe that there is a line connected to the top of the carb, but I thought this was for the choke.



After looking at the article on greensky, it is definatley that manual system.  I am not sure if the knob says HACman on it or not, but it is identical, and the brass tube connectors are identical.  



This has only one knob that controls both, the Artic Sparrow sounds nice in that you can adjust each one.  Looks like 2 diffrent methods to acomplish the same thing.



Andrew

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

At 04:31 AM 12/1/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I 

believe, and CCW to richen.  It has a couple of hoses that are 

routed to the carbs.  I assume that by adjusting it, it changes the 

pressure in the float bowl or something.


	


         You've got it Andrew. The HACman system varies the pressure 

in the float bowls. It's good for about 80F of EGT. It is generally 

coupled with 180 main jets, but these will vary depending on your 

locale. (180s are three steps richer than the stock 165 mains.) If 

you look under the hood you'll see the hoses go to the carbs and air 

cleaner. The hoses are connected to the manual needle valve on your 

panel. When you open the needle valve the intake manifold pressure is 

progressively vented to the float bowl, thereby decreasing the 

differential between the bowl and manifold and decreasing fuel flow. 

Therefore you've got the actuation backwards, CCW to lean, (open the 

needle,) and CW to close and richen.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?

On Mon, December 1, 2008 11:46 am, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 04:31 AM 12/1/2008, you wrote:


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   The HACman system varies the pressure in the float bowls. It's good for about 80F

 of EGT.


	


Guy, that doesn't seem like it is effective enough. I would think that you'd need an

adjustment range of 150°F or so. On a 4 stroke engine, peak EGT corresponds to a fuel

air ratio of 0.068 which is very close to stoichiometric but richening it a little say

100°F down from peak gives best power and that corresponds to a fuel air ratio of

about 0.080.



Would this not apply in principal to a 2 stroke too, except that you might want it

even richer under some conditions? I would presume that it is never approved to look

for peak EGT on a two stroke since it just gets hotter when leaning down from

stoichiometric fuel-air mix.



Are you disparaging the use of this kind of setup? Is it a good one or not?



-- 

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

PAF Consulting Engineers

Office 425.440.9505

Cell 425.241.1618

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