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gotosteven

Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: ontario canada

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: ch701 Plans

Hi my name is steven phillips I am 19 years old and am going to start building a ch701. I have a scrap yard and this is where i will get my inventory to turn into parts. I have completed building all the regular size Ribs but need more blueprints for rudder ribs and the smaller ribs closest to the plane. Any help would be greatly appreciated my email address is gotosteven(at)hotmail.com 



thanks again 



P.S the blueprints i got for free from a friend  are not complete they are missing many pages dog eared and ripped i cant afford new 500$ ones so hand drawings or anything would be appreciated

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: ch701 Plans

If the plans are legitimately yours (meaning they haven't been used to build

another 701 and the owner of record tells Zenith to transfer them to you)

then you can order the latest plans for $75 (that includes the photo

assembly CD).



If the above is not true then you owe it to the designer to pay him for the

design. The price is US$425.



The only other thing you have to worry about is the quality and alloy of the

metal coming out of your scrap yard 



-- Craig



--

gotosteven

Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: ontario canada

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: ch701 Plans

can you clearify the legitimately because the plans as i said came from my friend. he told me he had aquired them at yard sale they are 75% or better complete. I have the complete measurments and stuff on body most of the wing one part was a little smuged but I winged it and looks wonderful. one part missing for sure is the rudder i have thought about coming up with something myself but am a little worried about that. 



as for quility of metal I have the pick of the litter best of all its all free from my family and i have a expirenced 15 year plus welder working with alluminum that will help me thank GOD for family    



so would i quilify for 75 $ reprints that is perfect ( in my budget range)

gotosteven

Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: ontario canada

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: ch701 Plans

i really hope i can get the rudder details as the rest i feel i could mange i am young and thats  3 weeks pay for me.

 anyone willing to do some hand drawings or something would be greatly respected

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: ch701 Plans

There should be a serial number stamped on the plans (maybe on every page).

Something like 7-1234. If you call Zenith they can tell you who is the

registered owner for that number. They could also tell you how you could

qualify to buy updated plans. How old are the plans? Check the cover page

(if you have it) or look in the lower corner of a number of the pages. There

were significant upgrades in 2001 and 2002.



Everyone who thinks about building a Zenith aircraft starts with the rudder.

So there are a lot of them around. Someone might be willing to give you one

for a 701 (although building one is a great introduction to building a

Zenith aircraft). Where are you located?



BTW: there is a another list on Matronics specific to the 701 and 801. You

might want to join that one too.



-- Craig



--

gotosteven

Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: ontario canada

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: ch701 Plans

i guess the plans i got are bogus      oh well i am gonna try my best and fab somthing up i got the control schmatic and overall of parts i just will be guessing on the rib and plate measurments try and go oversize if anyone has some pointers email me please



oh i am in ontario canada and thanks for your help

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: ch701 Plans

Hi Steven,



I hope you find building a plane to be a great 

activity.  Unfortunately, there are some unavoidable costs involved 

in building a plane that is actually reasonably safe to fly.



I am concerned about your approach in a couple of critical 

areas.  First, the exact metal alloy used for any plane is 

critical.  Using scrap metal of unknown alloy and history is a 

formula for disaster.  Similarly, using cheap bolts and other 

hardware instead of the mil. spec. ones will also get you killed on 

your maiden flight.



I recommend you get a good set of plans and building instructions 

from one of the many good sources.  It is difficult to choose the 

best design, but any of the published sets of plans will be better 

for you than a partial set.  Considering how many years of effort it 

takes to complete a scratch built plane, it is worth spending some 

time considering what sort of flying you want to do rather than just 

building the first plane that comes along.

You really can build a plane on a budget, but the minimum budget may 

be more than your current thinking allows.  This is a free country 

and you can do whatever you want, but I suggest you take a more 

carefully considered approach to airplanes.



You can gain a great deal by joining the EAA and going to chapter 

meetings as well as the big regional shows.  There are lots of 

experienced folks in these chapters, and many of them have tricks for 

saving money while building planes that you probably haven't thought of yet.



Good luck,



Paul

XL getting close.

At 08:36 PM 11/30/2008, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  i guess the plans i got are bogus      oh well i am gonna try my 

best and fab somthing up i got the control schmatic and overall of 

parts i just will be guessing on the rib and plate measurments try 

and go oversize if anyone has some pointers email me please

gotosteven

Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: ontario canada

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Re: ch701 Plans

thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when i say scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as possible eg if it says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i will put 2 back to back as for the bolts i will be purchaseing the proper ones i also have very nice plates of alluminim like 1/2 inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will be usefull as well

ideaz1(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: ch701 Plans

Hi Steven, I know you're probably getting tired of being lectured to but a 

group like this is behind you and also very concerned for your safety. Re: 

the aluminum you use, I'm familiar with scrap yards too and for your project 

I just reccomend that you look for the alloy designation right after the 

thickness. You should be looking for 6061 T6. You could also use 2024 T3 ( 

which is actually stronger) If you cannot find one of these designations 

printed on the sheet DON'T USE IT!!! If you should use an alloy that is T0 

it is annealed and very soft(try this in a wing spar or wing skin and it 

will fold up on you as soon as you get a load on it!)This will eliminate the 

need for thicker material which might still not be of the same strength even 

though it is almost twice as thick.

Dirk Z Carson City Nv. ideaz1(at)sbcglobal.net

---

Flydog1966(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: ch701 Plans

That's an excellent idea.

  

  In a message dated 12/1/2008 11:28:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  gotosteven(at)HOTMAIL.COM writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "gotosteven"    <gotosteven(at)hotmail.com>



thanks for the great advise i do realize    you guys are worried when i say scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many    things as possible eg if it says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i will    put 2 back to back as for the bolts i will be purchaseing the proper ones i    also have very nice plates of alluminim like 1/2 inch thick and 3/4 inch thick    i am sure will be usefull as well





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170

	




Li?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

BobCollins

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Sunnyvale CA USA

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: ch701 Plans

I'm sorry, but sarcasm doesn't convey well in text. We have a naive and 

confused young man who would very much like to build something and I 

would hope that he might get some useful advice but, at worst, he 

shouldn't be made fun of.



Bob Collins

CH750 plans waiting

Flydog1966(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   That's an excellent idea.

  

 In a message dated 12/1/2008 11:28:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 

 gotosteven(at)HOTMAIL.COM writes:



     

     <gotosteven(at)hotmail.com>



     thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when

     i say scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as

     possible eg if it says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i

     will put 2 back to back as for the bolts i will be purchaseing the

     proper ones i also have very nice plates of alluminim like 1/2

     inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will be usefull as well





     Read this topic online here:



     http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 17170#217170

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: ch701 Plans

Bob, 

 

 I agree.  However, I don't think this young man understands the serious nature of this project he wants to undertake.  1) Building an airplane is absolutely not like building a kid's pedal car from scrap aluminum, 2) An airplane design is a VERY complicated thing, not to be "thumb-ruled" or "by guess and by goshed",   3) Unless it is the proper alloy and temper (6061-T6 or 2024-T4), scrap aluminum has no place in an airplane, 4) simply oversizing does not ensure safety,  5) a haphazard approach to constructing an airplane can result in DEATH. 

 

 I feel that Steven's approach to this project is MUCH too casual and is potentially dangerous. I am afraid for him.

 

 I would like to encourage Steven to do some serious study and investigation about airplane building before attempting to build an airplane from a tattered, out of date, partial set of design drawings, trying to guess at the missing parts and adlibbing with available  materials, simply because they are available.

 

 Jay In Dallas

 

   

 

   

 

 --

notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: ch701 Plans

When you complete you "aircraft", please tell us when and where you will 

test fly it   We want  to watch.  Or  maybe not..

---

gotosteven

Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: ontario canada

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: ch701 Plans

well good news is lots of the stuff i have collected does have 2024 T3 rate on it some of the stuff i had i had to part with due to not being sure 



as for the design of the oversizing smaller stuff like 025 is just not available 040 is plentiful so that is defenatly one of main reasons behind that also i have 100% faith in my father in laws skills and i am not such a noob myself as i have built dunebuggy and gocart before 



well if anyone is truely intrested in watching me fly or help me build it i will be building it at 432 webber road pelham ontario canada  right acroos the road from welland private airport

gotosteven

Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 15
Location: ontario canada

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Re: ch701 Plans

some of us color inside the lines other like to paint a masterpiece laugh all you want

hills(at)sunflower.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: ch701 Plans

I think you can build a plane of WOOD from scrap, if you know what your looking for and oversize questionable pieces, but the Zenith line uses the thinnest aluminum I have ever seen on a plane, and I agree it’s critical to use metal at least as strong as the 6061, and only if it is heat treated to the  proper levels as this makes a big difference in the strength as well. If you go with 2024 aluminum, you have the corrosion problem to account for as well  

Roger  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:49 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: ch701 Plans  

Bob, 

 I agree.  However, I don't think this young man understands the serious nature of this project he wants to undertake.  1) Building an airplane is absolutely not like building a kid's pedal car from scrap aluminum, 2) An airplane design is a VERY complicated thing, not to be "thumb-ruled" or "by guess and by goshed",   3) Unless it is the proper alloy and temper (6061-T6 or 2024-T4), scrap aluminum has no place in an airplane, 4) simply oversizing does not ensure safety,  5) a haphazard approach to constructing an airplane can result in DEATH. 

 I feel that Steven's approach to this project is MUCH too casual and is potentially dangerous. I am afraid for him.

 I would like to encourage Steven to do some serious study and investigation about airplane building before attempting to build an airplane from a tattered, out of date, partial set of design drawings, trying to guess at the missing parts and adlibbing with available  materials, simply because they are available.

 Jay In Dallas  

-----Original Message-----

 From: Bob Collins <bobcollins42(at)gmail.com>

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:17 pm

 Subject: Re: Re: ch701 Plans    

--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bob Collins <bobcollins42(at)gmail.com (bobcollins42(at)gmail.com)> 

 I'm sorry, but sarcasm doesn't convey well in text. We have a naive and confused young man who would very much like to build something and I would hope that he might get some useful advice but, at worst, he shouldn't be made fun of. 

 Bob Collins 

 CH750 plans waiting 

 Flydog1966(at)aol.com (Flydog1966(at)aol.com) wrote: 

 > That's an excellent idea. 

 > > In a message dated 12/1/2008 11:28:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > gotosteven(at)HOTMAIL.COM (gotosteven(at)HOTMAIL.COM) writes: 

 > 

 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "gotosteven" 

 > <gotosteven(at)hotmail.com (gotosteven(at)hotmail.com)> 

 > 

 > thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when 

 > i say scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as 

 > possible eg if it says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i 

 > will put 2 back to back as for the bolts i will be purchaseing the 

 > proper ones i also have very nice plates of alluminim like 1/2 

 > inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will be usefull as well 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > Read this topic online here: 

 > 

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170 

 > 

 > 

 > 

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pavel569

Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 77

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: ch701 Plans

Steven,



99% of us are not laughing. We're just worry about potential disaster that could happen. Every airplane is very carefully designed , very complex machine that, not like a gocart, is purposed to fly. Every change of material as thickness or type can lead to a breakup. Oversizing will cause change of CG and the plane can be hard to balance properly. Just be careful and try to talk and show what you do to someone with an airplane under his/her belt first. Nobody wants you to quit building your dream, we just want you to fly it safely for many years to come.

_________________
Pavel
CA
Zodiac 601XL
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings, fuselage, canopy done ...
"do not archive"

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: ch701 Plans

Would suggest you contact your local EAA and talk to them. If you are  planning on using .040 for the skin, not sure the aircraft will get off the  ground due to it's wt.   Jerry of GA     DO NOT  ARCHIVE

  

  In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:54:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  gotosteven(at)HOTMAIL.COM writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "gotosteven"    <gotosteven(at)hotmail.com>



well good news is lots of the stuff i    have collected does have 2024 T3 rate on it some of the stuff i had i had to    part with due to not being sure 



as for the design of the oversizing    smaller stuff like 025 is just not available 040 is plentiful so that is    defenatly one of main reasons behind that also i have 100% faith in my father    in laws skills and i am not such a noob myself as i have built dunebuggy and    gocart before 



well if anyone is truely intrested in watching me fly or    help me build it i will be building it at 432 webber road pelham ontario    canada  right acroos the road from welland private    airport





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217200#217200

	




Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your favorite sites. Try The NEW AOL.com.

  [quote][b]

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: ch701 Plans

Steven, please please, drive 45 min north to Kitchener /Waterloo

international airport and visit with me for a bit, I applaud your desire

for building an aircraft and I am willing to offer advice in your

endeavor. However, I am apprehensive on some of the things you have

stated. For your STOL 701 to be a basic UL in Canada It must conform to

the plans and you will need to use your serial # from those plans to

register your plane so a owned set of plans is necessary . IF it was a

kit you would need to come to me for a Statement of conformity also. If

you plan on registering your plane in the homebuilt category then you

will need to have inspections from the MD-RA and as such you will need

to prove material will once again match the plans in thickness and

composition.  



The plans you have at present are likely a very old set and over 200

changes have happened since 98 - 08 about 21 of them structural. I have

3 701's in the hanger right now and parts of the 750 and a 650. Come up

for a visit and bring your parts for me to look over ( no charge for

time ). If you are making ribs and such out of .040 material then I can

guarantee that the material is not acceptable or the part will not be

acceptable, but I will be more then happy for you to prove me wrong. IF

I am right then I will explain how you can make it right.



AS for you abilities, I trust you can do this and believe that you have

the ability, but keep in mind that your life in a dune buggy and go cart

is not in jeopardy if you have made small errors, if the engine stops or

the bumper falls off then you just tow it home. In a plane you have a

problem and you have to answer to gravity which is the least forgiving

forces on this earth. 

Also I am reading more into your letters, but I am pretty sure that at

this point you do not have a license or permit to fly your plane.

Therefore, training is in order and I will be offering UL training in

the 701 and 650 in the spring. Once again another reason to come up for

a visit, you are not allowed to fly in Canada in any aircraft without

registration/training/ proof of liability insurance. I receive calls

quite often from the latter for proof of ownership and construction. 



Mark Townsend

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

519-590-7601 www.canzac.ca

Canadian Dealer for Zenith Aircraft Kits, Zenair Designs.

 



--

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: ch701 Plans

Steven,

I have been following this post, for you to have even tried this on your own is a pretty big accomplishment. But like others have said the exact materials have to be used in order for the airframe to be what the designer intended. Yes some substitutions are made from time to time, but only after consulting with the designer or the designers representative. That would be Mark Townsend. in your case. If you don't ask the designer, you may end up with something that could be extremely dangerous to fly. And like said about dune-buggies I don't worry too much about my dirt bike, because the worse that will usually happen is I get to walk back to the truck. If my 701 fails( well when I finish it) bad things could happen to me and my family. 



I don't think that anyone is laughing at you at all, I did think at first that it was someone trying to scam free plans. But it seems that you are what you claim. And as such you should be vary proud of your accomplishment thus far. Please though, take Mark up on his offer. ( heck I'd take him up on his offer to you if I lived closer!) You can trust him for a fair evaluation of your work and for good advise on changes to make or skills to sharpen. 



If you go see Mark and are still interested post here that you did and I'll send you my copy of the scratch building basic video. I don't need it any more and it is really pretty good information on building a 701 rudder and had to properly do it from flat stock aluminum. 



Check up on those plans, if they are not unused plans, you can post on this site and on Barnstormers for unused ones. With the CH750 I think some will be for sale. Sorry I'm too far into the 701 to give mine up!!:^(



Best of luck to you and please, take Mark up on his offer.



Kevin

_________________
â€œAlways do what you are afraid to do.â€
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

Last edited by kmccune on Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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