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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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 Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:01 am Post subject: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? |
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At 05:27 AM 12/9/2008, pj.ladd wrote:
| Quote: | ...To the surprise of the watchers on the ground, the glider turned back
through 180 degrees....
No one knows what happened. Presumably the pupil froze on the controls and
the instructor couldn`t over ride him.
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Same thing happened to a woman I knew, the mother of an old
girlfriend. She ran the flight school and was flying with a student, a
male doctor. Rope broke just after takeoff, he panicked and wouldn't let
go of the controls, tried to turn back. As he was a lot stronger than her
all she could do was go along for the ride. They both survived the crash,
with injuries, but afterwards he claimed that SHE tried to turn back, and
sued her for everything she had. Not being able to afford a lawyer as good
as he could hire with his doctor's income, she lost the business... last I
heard she was flying right seat for some 2-bit commuter line.
-Dana
do not archive
--
Can televangelists do more than lay people???
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? |
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At 09:43 AM 12/9/2008, Thom Riddle wrote:
| Quote: | The third table, ASSUMES a 600 FPM descent rate. This table depends upon
that assumption. If your airplane descends at a different rate then the
altitude loss numbers will differ linearly. In other words if your
airplane descends at say 450 FPM then the altitude loss will be 3/4 of
those in the table shown for a 600 FPM descent rate.
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Without checking the numbers, it looks right. However, I question the
assumption of a constant 600fpm descent rate. In a steep turn, the descent
rate will increase quite a bit.
Of course, there's also reaction time, and time to push the nose down, roll
into the turn, roll back out, and flare, which all must be factored into
the real world scenario.
-Dana
--
The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? |
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At 02:20 PM 12/9/2008, Thom Riddle wrote:
| Quote: |
Stall speed vs bank angle is widely misunderstood. Many CFIs regurgitate
what they've been taught and what they've read in FAA publications without
fully understanding it. What most have been taught is that "Stall speed
increases with increased bank angle." What they are not taught, but is
true nonetheless, is that this statement is true ONLY if there is an
increase in G loading, which is the case if you are trying to maintain
altitude and airspeed. If you maintain 1 G loading when banking steeply(by
descending at the proper rate), the stall speed does not increase. The
only way to maintain 1 G load while banking steeply and turning is by
descending while turning.
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You are correct; stall speed increases with bank angle in a level
coordinated turn. BUT... If you maintain 1g in a coordinated banked turn,
then the aircraft must accelerate downwards at an acceleration
corresponding to the 1 minus the cosine of the bank angle times 1G. In the
case of the 60° banked turn, you either pull 2g's or you pull 1g and
accelerate down at 1/2g... so your vertical speed increases by 16 fps (960
fpm) every second. So, to using an airspeed of 50 mph and 60° bank,
according to the chart you posted earlier it takes 6 seconds... but at the
end of those 6 seconds your rate of descent has increased to 5760 fpm and
you've lost an additional 288' of altitude.
-Dana
--
In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is
weird, people take prozac to make it normal.
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:28 am Post subject: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? |
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Not being able to afford a lawyer as good
as he could hire with his doctor's income, she lost the business>>
Hi Dana,
Life is damned unfair sometimes. Specially when litigation is involved. Sad
story
Pat
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Possums
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: What is your Altitude loss in a 180 degree turn? |
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At 10:32 PM 12/20/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: |
So I got serious a couple years back about occasionally practicing
"engine barf recoveries" at altitude. My experience is that if you
are in a steep full throttle climb and snatch the throttle back to
idle, you need to immediately go to full nose down stick and even
then the airspeed will go to about zero.
Meanwhile, the airplane feels like it is simultaneously decelerating
and rotating around the main spar. (It's actually very cool) Once
the airplane has transitioned to about a 45 degree nose down
attitude, it begins to accelerate, and it doesn't feel like it
actually stalls. Probably it does, but it's not apparent, because of
the odd rotation it is doing.
At this point, as soon as the airspeed indicator passes about 30,
(because it is accelerating very well) I have found that if you go
to either a maximum deflection right or left turn (keep the ball
centered) and begin your pullout, you can do a course reversal and
level out in around 200 feet. Best I ever did was 160, but that was
primed and ready. In actual "surprise engine barf mode," it would
probably be closer to 250 feet.
Richard Pike
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I bet if somebody did it, it would look something like this?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4600043392041186975&hl=en
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