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rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

At our local EAA chapter (37) meeting last night a local A&P said we really need to heat everything – not just heads or oil or cylinders but EVERYTHING! – when we fire up the engine in cold weather.  He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings.  He said that even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps, you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the engine.    

   

I have never worried about this.  If it is not windy, I fly without regard to the temperatures.  Am I destroying my 912S by starting it cold?   

   

Randy  - flew yesterday in teens and low 20’s F – over Mount Rushmore  

   

Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive taper tip  

       [quote][b]

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

Randy,



I know nothing for sure except the Rotax engine is manufactured in Austria, 

not Florida or Brazil.  I think it also gets cold in Austria.  With the 

volume of service bulletins and letters published by Rotax, I suspect that 

if it was an issue we would have heard of it by now.



Lowell



---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings.  He said that even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps, you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the engine.  	


 YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm sure.)



 Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays.  



 Happy Holidays,



 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.    [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Cold weather starting

I bought a small space heater, hooked up a 4" diameter flex dryer

hose to it. Stick it in the oil cooler door, and let it run for an hour before

flying. During the really cold part of the year, I toss a blanket over

the cowl, and leave it run 24x7



Last week, I had to preheat my panel as well, because my AI would 

not spin up level, and had a serious case of the leans until it got warm. 



My IO-240B is VERY hard to crank when the temp gets down below

30F, however with the little space heater keeping it warm, it cranks as 

easily as summertime.



Regards,

Jeff

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil pan,  

and a blanket over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other  

temp will see your engine oil at 106°, and your heads at about 80-90°  

before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's  

winter. When I start my engine, the oil drops to about 98°, and hangs  

there for awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but  

don't go to full power until it hits 120°...all temps are °F. Light  

bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the  

bottom of the cowl.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:

> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very  

> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings.  He said that  

> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps,  

> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the  

> engine.

 YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile  

 engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm  

 sure.)

 Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. 

 Happy Holidays,

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

Lynn 

I used a small electric forced air space heater - I used a splitter and some of the cheap aluminum clothes dryer ducting to feed air into the two air inlets at the front of the cowl and a blanket draped over the top of the cowl. The air would warm the cylinders and then flow down around the crankcase and out the bottom 

I had this on a timer that came on at about 7.00am on weekends. 

By the time I got to the field all of my temps (CHT and Oil) were up to standard summer temps. 

This worked down to -20 degC and my Jab 2200 started first crank every time. 

That was in N.Ontario - now in Adelaide  Australia, my biggest winter problem is finding enough ice for my drinks! 

Regards 

Gary

 Gary Algate

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

11/12/2008 10:08 AM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com   cc

    Subject

 Re: Cold weather starting 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil pan,  

 and a blanket over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other  

 temp will see your engine oil at 106°, and your heads at about 80-90°  

 before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's  

 winter. When I start my engine, the oil drops to about 98°, and hangs  

 there for awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but  

 don't go to full power until it hits 120°...all temps are °F. Light  

 bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the  

 bottom of the cowl.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 > At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:

 >> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very  

 >> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings.  He said that  

 >> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps,  

 >> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the  

 >> engine.

 >

 > YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile  

 > engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm  

 > sure.)

 >

 > Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. 

 >

 > Happy Holidays,

 >

 > Guy Buchanan

 > San Diego, CA

 > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 >

 > ===================================

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

I could chop some ice and send it to you, Gary...: )



Strange sight here today....a circular hole about 50 feet across in  

an otherwise frozen lake near here, and surrounded by ducks, geese,  

and maybe a swan or two...like they were having a tribal meeting or  

something.



Another oddity...my flight instructor called me outside his hangar  

(where I was working) to see a HUGE flock of geese flying over. He  

asked if I knew why the one line of geese was longer than the  

other...I didn't....he said that's because there were more geese in  

that line....DUH!



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Dec 10, 2008, at 6:52 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Lynn



 I used a small electric forced air space heater - I used a splitter  

 and some of the cheap aluminum clothes dryer ducting to feed air  

 into the two air inlets at the front of the cowl and a blanket  

 draped over the top of the cowl. The air would warm the cylinders  

 and then flow down around the crankcase and out the bottom



 I had this on a timer that came on at about 7.00am on weekends.



 By the time I got to the field all of my temps (CHT and Oil) were  

 up to standard summer temps.



 This worked down to -20 degC and my Jab 2200 started first crank  

 every time.



 That was in N.Ontario - now in Adelaide  Australia, my biggest  

 winter problem is finding enough ice for my drinks!



 Regards



 Gary



 Gary Algate

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

In El Paso we have to put a block of ice on the  motor on a winter morning to keep it from overheating on start up.

  

 Pete

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

On Wed, December 10, 2008 8:11 am, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At our local EAA chapter (37) meeting last night a local A&P said we really

 need to heat everything - not just heads or oil or cylinders but EVERYTHING!

 - when we fire up the engine in cold weather.  He singled out the Rotax 900

 series engines because of their very tight fit compared to Continentals or

 Lycomings.  He said that even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or

 lower temps, you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the

 engine.


	


As a matter of practicality, it would be pretty difficult to keep it all warm even

with when starting warm right out of a hangar without cowl flaps.



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have never worried about this.  If it is not windy, I fly without regard

 to the temperatures.  Am I destroying my 912S by starting it cold?


	


There's one sure way to tell and that is oil analyses. They are very sensitive to even

small changes. I had a loose air cleaner hose going to the turbo charger and on a

highway truck (not used in dirty conditions at all) and the oil analysis detected a

trace of silicon that had never been there before.



If you compare your cold weather operation oil analysis with summer oil analysis that

should show you how much of various metals are appearing.



-- 

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

PAF Consulting Engineers

Office 425.440.9505

Cell 425.241.1618

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

Lynn C What is an "enclosure heater"?

  

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL

  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Cold weather starting 

 Date: Wed C 10 Dec 2008 18:31:22 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil pan C 

 and a blanket over the cowl C so that temps in the teens or any other 

 temp will see your engine oil at 106° C and your heads at about 80-90° 

 before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's 

 winter. When I start my engine C the oil drops to about 98° C and hangs 

 there for awhile C then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp C but 

 don't go to full power until it hits 120°...all temps are °F. Light 

 bulbs are too dangerous C IMHO C and too hard to manipulate from the 

 bottom of the cowl.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild C and new Electroair direct-fire ignition 

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 

 

 

 

 On Dec 10 C 2008 C at 2:07 PM C Guy Buchanan wrote:

 

 > At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008 C you wrote:

 >> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very 

 >> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings. He said that 

 >> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps C 

 >> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the 

 >> engine.

 >

 > YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile 

 > engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well C up to a point C I'm 

 > sure.)

 >

 > Sorry C I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. 

 >

 > Happy Holidays C

 >

 > Guy Buchanan

 > San Diego C CA

 > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done C thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 >

 > ===================================

 

 > 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

Sbennett3(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

My engine heater is a can of start fluid on those cold  mornings... (30 to 35f)  I've been spanked on this group before so have at  it.  Steve Bennett  NC USA  4/1200 912ul

  

  In a message dated 12/10/2008 9:40:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  patreilly43(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Lynn,    What is an "enclosure heater"?

 

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582    Rebuild

Rockford, IL

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   From:    lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Cold weather starting    

 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:31:22 -0500

 To:    kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted    by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Another reason to    run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil pan, 

 and a blanket    over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other 

 temp will see    your engine oil at 106°, and your heads at about 80-90° 

 before you're    out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's 

 winter. When I    start my engine, the oil drops to about 98°, and hangs 

 there for    awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but 

 don't go to    full power until it hits 120°...all temps are °F. Light 

 bulbs are too    dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the 

 bottom of the    cowl.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster,    taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

    flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition 

    system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 

    

 

 

 On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan    wrote:

 

 > At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:

    >> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very    

 >> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings. He said    that 

 >> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or    lower temps, 

 >> you will be scraping some metal off and    starting the end of the 

 >> engine.

 >

 >    YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile 

 >    engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm 

    > sure.)

 >

 > Sorry, I always get a little delirious    around the Holidays. 

 >

 > Happy Holidays,

    >

 > Guy Buchanan

 > San Diego, CA

 > K-IV    1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

    >

 > ===================================

 

    > 

 

 


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  



://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

	
	




Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites in ony&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010">Try it now.

  [quote][b]

jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

I’m sorry.  I should have addressed that to Gary.  

Jim Crowder  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate(at)sandvik.com

 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:52 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Cold weather starting  

 Lynn 

 I used a small electric forced air space heater - I used a splitter and some of the cheap aluminum clothes dryer ducting to feed air into the two air inlets at the front of the cowl and a blanket draped over the top of the cowl. The air would warm the cylinders and then flow down around the crankcase and out the bottom 

 I had this on a timer that came on at about 7.00am on weekends. 

 By the time I got to the field all of my temps (CHT and Oil) were up to standard summer temps. 

 This worked down to -20 degC and my Jab 2200 started first crank every time. 

 That was in N.Ontario - now in Adelaide  Australia, my biggest winter problem is finding enough ice for my drinks! 

 Regards 

 Gary

 Gary Algate

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

   Lynn   Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>    

Sent by:   owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

   11/12/2008   10:08 AM 

   Please respond   to

   kitfox-list(at)matronics.com                        

To               

kitfox-list(at)matronics.com                            

cc                            

Subject               

Re:     Cold weather starting               

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil pan,  

 and a blanket over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other  

 temp will see your engine oil at 106°, and your heads at about 80-90°  

 before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's  

 winter. When I start my engine, the oil drops to about 98°, and hangs  

 there for awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but  

 don't go to full power until it hits 120°...all temps are °F. Light  

 bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the  

 bottom of the cowl.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 > At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:

 >> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very  

 >> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings.  He said that  

 >> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps,  

 >> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the  

 >> engine.

 >

 > YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile  

 > engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm  

 > sure.)

 >

 > Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. 

 >

 > Happy Holidays,

 >

 > Guy Buchanan

 > San Diego, CA

 > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 >

 > ==========

 ============

 --

 Gifts!)

 on

 about

            -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ============

 Forum -

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

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 WEB FORUMS -

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jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting

Lynn,  

What did you use for a splitter?  

Jim Crowder  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate(at)sandvik.com

 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:52 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Cold weather starting  

 Lynn 

 I used a small electric forced air space heater - I used a splitter and some of the cheap aluminum clothes dryer ducting to feed air into the two air inlets at the front of the cowl and a blanket draped over the top of the cowl. The air would warm the cylinders and then flow down around the crankcase and out the bottom 

 I had this on a timer that came on at about 7.00am on weekends. 

 By the time I got to the field all of my temps (CHT and Oil) were up to standard summer temps. 

 This worked down to -20 degC and my Jab 2200 started first crank every time. 

 That was in N.Ontario - now in Adelaide  Australia, my biggest winter problem is finding enough ice for my drinks! 

 Regards 

 Gary

 Gary Algate

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

   Lynn   Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>    

Sent by:   owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

   11/12/2008   10:08 AM 

   Please respond   to

   kitfox-list(at)matronics.com                        

To               

kitfox-list(at)matronics.com                            

cc                            

Subject               

Re:     Cold weather starting               

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil pan,  

 and a blanket over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other  

 temp will see your engine oil at 106°, and your heads at about 80-90°  

 before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's  

 winter. When I start my engine, the oil drops to about 98°, and hangs  

 there for awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but  

 don't go to full power until it hits 120°...all temps are °F. Light  

 bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the  

 bottom of the cowl.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 > At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:

 >> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very  

 >> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings.  He said that  

 >> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps,  

 >> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the  

 >> engine.

 >

 > YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile  

 > engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm  

 > sure.)

 >

 > Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. 

 >

 > Happy Holidays,

 >

 > Guy Buchanan

 > San Diego, CA

 > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 >

 > ==========

 ============

 --

 Gifts!)

 on

 about

            -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ============

 Forum -

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 ============

 WEB FORUMS -

 ============

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       [quote][b]

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

I made my own Jim from some scrap aluminum - basically I made two x 4" tubes and riveted them to an aluminum enclosure which I just taped to the heater using aluminum duct tape. 

I used that really light aluminum that you buy in a roll from hardware stores 

Gary

 Gary Algate

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

"Jim Crowder" <jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.net> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

11/12/2008 06:09 PM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>   cc

    Subject

 RE: Cold weather starting 

Lynn, 

What did you use for a splitter? 

Jim Crowder 

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate(at)sandvik.com

 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:52 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Cold weather starting 

 Lynn 

 I used a small electric forced air space heater - I used a splitter and some of the cheap aluminum clothes dryer ducting to feed air into the two air inlets at the front of the cowl and a blanket draped over the top of the cowl. The air would warm the cylinders and then flow down around the crankcase and out the bottom 

 I had this on a timer that came on at about 7.00am on weekends. 

 By the time I got to the field all of my temps (CHT and Oil) were up to standard summer temps. 

 This worked down to -20 degC and my Jab 2200 started first crank every time. 

 That was in N.Ontario - now in Adelaide  Australia, my biggest winter problem is finding enough ice for my drinks! 

 Regards 

 Gary

 Gary Algate

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

 Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>  

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 11/12/2008 10:08 AM 

 Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com   

    To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com    cc

    Subject

 Re: Cold weather starting 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil pan,  

 and a blanket over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other  

 temp will see your engine oil at 106°, and your heads at about 80-90°  

 before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's  

 winter. When I start my engine, the oil drops to about 98°, and hangs  

 there for awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but  

 don't go to full power until it hits 120°...all temps are °F. Light  

 bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the  

 bottom of the cowl.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 > At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:

 >> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very  

 >> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings.  He said that  

 >> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps,  

 >> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the  

 >> engine.

 >

 > YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile  

 > engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm  

 > sure.)

 >

 > Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. 

 >

 > Happy Holidays,

 >

 > Guy Buchanan

 > San Diego, CA

 > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 >

 > ==========

 ============

 --

 Gifts!)

 on

 about

            -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ============

 Forum -

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

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 WEB FORUMS -

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http://www.matronics.com/contribution 

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[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

It's for heating a small enclosure or cabinet. I got mine at the  

Grainger store about 30 miles from here. Here is an direct link with  

picture, to the exact heater that I bought.



http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3HK15



I put a layer of a woven fiberglass (Spruce calls it heat-proof tape,  

P/N 09-31500) under the bottom side of the heater so it would send  

more heat upwards, and not so much down, because I insert mine  

between the oil pan and the oil cooler on my engine, and because the  

oil cooler is so thin, I figured that the oil might get too hot there.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:38 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, What is an "enclosure heater"?

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL



 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Cold weather starting

 > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:31:22 -0500

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil  

 pan,

 > and a blanket over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other

 > temp will see your engine oil at 106°, and your heads at about  

 80-90°

 > before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's

 > winter. When I start my engine, the oil drops to about 98°, and  

 hangs

 > there for awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but

 > don't go to full power until it hits 120°...all temps are °F. Light

 > bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the

 > bottom of the cowl.

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 > Sensenich 62x46

 > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition

 > system;

 > also building a new pair of snow skis

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 >

 > > At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:

 > >> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very

 > >> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings. He said that

 > >> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps,

 > >> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the

 > >> engine.

 > >

 > > YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile

 > > engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm

 > > sure.)

 > >

 > > Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. 

 > >

 > > Happy Holidays,

 > >

 > > Guy Buchanan

 > > San Diego, CA

 > > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

 > >

 > > ===================================

 >

 > >

 >

 >



 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

Sounds like flashing material for roof work.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Dec 11, 2008, at 3:55 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I made my own Jim from some scrap aluminum - basically I made two x  

 4" tubes and riveted them to an aluminum enclosure which I just  

 taped to the heater using aluminum duct tape.



 I used that really light aluminum that you buy in a roll from  

 hardware stores



 Gary

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:45 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

Ok, Steve, bend over....I would think that starting fluid just gets  

the engine started, without giving any warmth to the oil and the rest  

of the engine. I'm sure that even the most greedy of the engine  

dealers...no names, please...would suggest that you warm the engine  

to allow for free oil flow and less scraping/friction/damage when it  

does start. I'm thinking that if you NEED starting fluid, something  

isn't right...too much friction, too much drag on the starter,  

bringing the battery down, cold fuel, etc.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Sbennett3(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   My engine heater is a can of start fluid on those cold mornings...  

 (30 to 35f)  I've been spanked on this group before so have at it.   

 Steve Bennett  NC USA  4/1200 912ul



 In a message dated 12/10/2008 9:40:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

 patreilly43(at)hotmail.com writes:

 Lynn, What is an "enclosure heater"?

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

Pete,

  I have the same problem here in Florida. A block of ice on the engine will usually get the engine cold enough so you don't over heat it! Sure hate to see Christmas go by. I know the ground hog will bring us another hot,muggy summer shortly there after!

                                                     Dick Maddux

                                                     Pensacola,Fl 



One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. [url=h0000019]The NEW AOL.com[/url].

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

His advice sounds more than reasonable...  The very worst thing you can do to an engine is start it.  That being true, when you do start it  you want to make the start as smooth and easy as possible.  It’s easy to remove metal form the inside of your engine... neigh on impossible to put it back!  

   

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C95B80.DC729C90[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

912 almost installed  

Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

   

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Daughenbaugh

 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:41 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Cold weather starting   

  

  

   

At our local EAA chapter (37) meeting last night a local A&P said we really need to heat everything – not just heads or oil or cylinders but EVERYTHING! – when we fire up the engine in cold weather.  He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings.  He said that even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps, you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the engine.    

   

I have never worried about this.  If it is not windy, I fly without regard to the temperatures.  Am I destroying my 912S by starting it cold?   

   

Randy  - flew yesterday in teens and low 20’s F – over Mount Rushmore  

   

Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive taper tip   	  Quote: 	
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Patrick.Best(at)telus.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: Cold weather starting

I would like to recommend using a Blow-Pot, like the northern bush-pilot pioneers!



For those of you who don't know what that is....



When a pilot was done flying for the day during the winter in northern Canada, the "flight engineer's" responsibility was to drain the oil from the engine into a large metal bucket and bring it indoors over night.  The next morning, in temperatures as low as -60 F (yes, that's a real temp), the engineer would shroud the engine, light the kersone blow-pot stove and heat the oil in the buckets for a couple of hours.  Then it would be poured back into the engine for the flight.

I read it in this FASCINATING book.  I would completely recommend it.  It's about 1930's era Junkers with skis.  Crashes and flying without reliable maps.  Good pictures too.



The site says it's out of print, but there's probably many copies around still.



http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/BentPropsBlowPots

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