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Heavy Xtra :-(
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dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs less 

usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm less 

than excited about this.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

When you go to a restaurant simply leave after the soup and salad.

Problem solved.

Seriously, I wonder what they left out to accomplish the savings?

-BB  do not archive



On 14, Mar 2006, at 3:11 PM, David Key wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs 

 less

 usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm 

 less

 than excited about this.

sspence801(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

David:



    I have a heavy Xtra as well, and glad I do.  The early versions of the 

Xtra do weigh more due to additional chrome molly in the cage.  The dual 

controls came standard as did flaps.  I believe that the early (#s1-23) are 

stronger and better.  Be happy with your good fortune to get an early one.



Steve Spence

Mk3Xtra 912-S

---

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

I have serial number 1.

Do you have pics of yours?

Thanks,

David

[quote]From: "Steve Spence" <sspence801(at)sbcglobal.net>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Heavy Xtra 

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:18:45 -0500






David:



     I have a heavy Xtra as well, and glad I do.  The early versions of the

Xtra do weigh more due to additional chrome molly in the cage.  The dual

controls came standard as did flaps.  I believe that the early (#s1-23) are

stronger and better.  Be happy with your good fortune to get an early one.



Steve Spence

Mk3Xtra 912-S

---

masonclan(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs less

 usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm less

 than excited about this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 David,


	


I just did my WB last week, came in at 570lbs, was a little surprised, what

was your empty weight?



Robert Mason

M3X 582



 	  Quote:

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

Robert, I'm not there yet, I'm at the part where I try to figure out what 

I'm going to do with 80 extra pounds that do nothing except decrease climb 

rate and decrease useful load and increase take off roll and increase 

landing roll. Maybe someone with a light xtra can throw in an 80lb sand bag, 

wait they don't make sand bags that heavy, well grab a couple and tell me 

what performance I can expect. Instead of flying like I'm 180 it will fly 

like I weigh 260. Im one of those guys that doesnt like the BRSs because 

I dont want to give up the 20lbs every time I fly, shoot at least that 

20lbs might save my life this 80lbs does nothing for me and I'll have it 

EVERY TIME I FLY!



A month or so ago, I ask the list if there were different versions because I 

had heard there might be. I got answers that the stabs were different; no 

one mentioned the 80lb difference. I found out today that I should of ask 

the Kolb company, my bad.



Im done venting. Ive ask the Kolb company for the numbers to the plane 

Ive bought. This is probably one of those times where I should keep my 

mouth shut.



From:  Robert Mason <masonclan(at)sbcglobal.net>

Reply-To:  kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To:  Kolb List <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  Re: Heavy Xtra 

Date:  Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:59:59 -0800

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 > 

 >

 > Wow, I just found out that I have a heavy xtra... besides having 80lbs 

less

 > usefull load!! can some one tell me the benifits of a heavy xtra? I'm 

less

 > than excited about this.

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > David,



I just did my WB last week, came in at 570lbs, was a little surprised, what

was your empty weight?



Robert Mason

M3X 582



 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

On Mar 14, 2006, at 9:04 PM, David Key wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Robert, I'm not there yet, I'm at the part where I try to figure  

 out what

 I'm going to do with 80 extra pounds that do nothing except  

 decrease climb

 rate and decrease useful load and increase take off roll and increase

 landing roll.


	


David,

If you have flaps instead of the flaprons, you also have more total  

wing area.

You will NOT have an increased take off roll or landing roll but  

shorter.



As you said, ,,,,,,,, You are not there yet!

bill_joe(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

Robert,   I think I have number 007. I have added a few extra items to 

mine . And built it a little heavy. My empty is 630 lbs. I would not even 

think of trading it for one of the light ones. My opinion.

    Do not archive

         Bill Futrell Mk111 912 and happy with it.

---

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

I have flaperons. Tell me where I lost you? Do you agree that more weight is 

more take off roll? Do you agree that more weight is more landing roll? Do 

you agree that more weight is less climb? Do you agree that more weight is 

less useful load? If you said yes to all four we are in agreement and we are 

both not there yet.

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Heavy Xtra :-(

 	  dhkey(at)msn.com wrote: 	
		  



Im one of those guys that doesnt like the BRSs because 

I dont want to give up the 20lbs every time I fly, shoot at least that 

20lbs might save my life this 80lbs does nothing for me and I'll have it 

EVERY TIME I FLY!



	




Your reasoning on the 20 pounds is just plain wrong.  A BRS is much more likely to save your life than to cause any type of problem...   From the sound of your post, it seems that you are obsessing about weight to the point of ignoring all else.  Obsessing on one item is always bad, everything is a trade off.  Having a plane that is stronger might be worth the extra weight.



The most likely accident scenario is that your engine will quit, at which point you will be comming down weather your plane is heavy or light.  At that point the more heavily built cage might be a good thing.   The MK-III is a pretty big plane with lots of power, 80 pounds is about 12% extra at flying weight and wont kill the performance.  More important than the weight is how well it is built, covered, etc...   If you got a nice plane with quality workmanship, dont sweat the weight issue to much.



Michael A. Bigelow

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:46 am Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:39 PM, David Key wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have flaperons. Tell me where I lost you?


	


Oh Sorry, I assumed that with those 80 extra pounds you also had the  

standard flaps.

Where does your plane have those "extra" pounds ?

Seems like 80 lb. would be an awfully lot of weight to loose  just  

off the chrome-molly cage.

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

I called Kolb and they said the old ones were 80lbs heavier than the new 

ones.



It's kinda like buying a 2005 Toyota Camary knowing that it gets 30 miles to 

the gallon and finding out when you got home that the one you bought gets 

15% less gas mileage than all the other 2005 Toyota Camarys because you 

bought the wrong serial number. It's a surprise and not a good one.

WillUribe(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

David,

I don't understand what your talking about. All auto makers make  changes to 

their models all the time every time. When did you buy your  Xtra, did you buy 

a pre owned Xtra? Your heavy, early Xtra should be  faster.

 

As I recall, TNK hired an airplane designer, he made many flight tests  on 

the classic to design it with rounded edges so as to reduce wind drag  and 

thereby increase fuel efficiency.  I remember seeing pictures in  magazines with 

streamers taped all over the classic's wings, fuselage and  tail.  After the 

redesign of the classic the Xtra was born, there was more  steel added to the 

fuselage to make it more aerodynamic and a bigger  horizontal stabilizer was 

added.  After building a few it was determined  that the Xtra would not make the 

ultralight trainer weight so all the extra  steel was no longer added, the 

bigger horizontal stabilizer was changed back to  the classic and I believe the 

flaps were also changed.  This is from  memory so don't quote me on this.

 

Regards,

Guillermo Uribe

FireStar II N4GU

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 3/15/2006 7:07:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,  

dhkey(at)msn.com writes:






I called  Kolb and they said the old ones were 80lbs heavier than the new  

ones.



It's kinda like buying a 2005 Toyota Camary knowing that it  gets 30 miles to 

the gallon and finding out when you got home that the one  you bought gets 

15% less gas mileage than all the other 2005 Toyota  Camarys because you 

bought the wrong serial number. It's a surprise and  not a good one.

jdm(at)wideworld.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

Do you want to sell it?



---

jdm(at)wideworld.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

Would you consider selling?  You can contact me off line if you'd like.

---

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

A couple years back I was nearly ready to fly my MkIIIc for the first 

time

and figured it wouldn't hurt to get a factory familiarization hop.

Turned out they were having ignition problems with the demo Xtra

and they advised me so before I headed south.  (was visiting a TN

friend anyway).  I dropped in to TNK to at least take a looksee and

got to look over the grounded bird.  It sure looked to be built to as 

minimum

a design possible to still be structurally sound.  I would not have 

hesitated

to have done a few circuits in it.  Whatever they did to remove 80 lbs 

later

must have been an intensive effort.

I did get the opportunity to meet John Williamson who happened by

the same day.

BTW, after I returned to the "nawth country" I jumped into my raggedy

hybrid monstrosity and went for it.  The little Kolb behaved just like a

real airplane.

One of these days I may drop in again for that ride.  

-BB  do not archive



On 15, Mar 2006, at 9:05 AM, David Key wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I called Kolb and they said the old ones were 80lbs heavier than the 

 new

 ones.



 It's kinda like buying a 2005 Toyota Camary knowing that it gets 30 

 miles to

 the gallon and finding out when you got home that the one you bought 

 gets

 15% less gas mileage than all the other 2005 Toyota Camarys because you

 bought the wrong serial number. It's a surprise and not a good one.

Denny Rowe

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Leechburg, PA

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

Wow,

I, like someone else mentioned am having a hard time figuring where an extra 

eighty pounds could come from between an early model to a later of the same 

Kolb.

There is no way I can imagine the thin wall tubing adding up to that kind of 

weight. Heck, eighteen pounds maybe, but Eighty?

Any how, good luck with the building and keep us posted on the finished 

weight, all those out there with finished Xtras, let us know where your 

weights came in.



Thoughts everybody?



Denny

Cat36Fly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

My X-tra came in at 542 lbs with a 582, 3 blade warp, radio, X-ponder,  

electric start, strobes, intercom, tundra tires, hyd brakes and full dual  controls 

& 10 gal tanks. I can still haul a 200 pounder with full tanks.  Currently 

hauling 150 lbs of sand for company. 

 

Larry Tasker 

MKlll x 582

N615RT

 

PS Also just picked up repairman's cert.

kiwimick

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Location: ENGLAND

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

David,

Is it painted with Polytone or enamel?.



Mike

Xtra/Jab 2200

---

_________________
Mike the kiwi Kolber in England.......

kiwimick

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Location: ENGLAND

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: Heavy Xtra :-(

Denny,

My Xtra/Jab = 534.6 lb.



Mike

---

_________________
Mike the kiwi Kolber in England.......

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