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From 2003 and Mark T

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zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: From 2003 and Mark T

Wow that was an old post, The .125 and the .060 extruded are both 6061

T6 



Mark 



--

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Re: From 2003 and Mark T

Yup I've been digging around. I also have to apologize as I reread my post and I didn't make myself clear. My question was is the extrusion acceptable for all the .093 and .040? And is it architectural or structural 

grade? 



Thanks



Kevin



Quote snipped from original post

Joined: 22 Sep 2007

Posts: 421

Location: Wisconsin, USA

 Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: 701 longerons .093 extrus. From 2003 and Mark T	   

________________________________________

Mark is this true for all the .093 and .040 angle on the 701? And is it structural or architectural grade? 



Thanks and sorry for the kick in the head...memory! 



Kevin 

""" 

From: "Mark Townsend" <601xl> 

Subject: Re: 701 longerons .093 extrus. 

Date: Mar 04, 2003 

I have talked to Chris about this and he Ok'ed me to use .0125 in place of 

the .090 and to use extruded .060 in place of the formed .040 longeron. I 

plan on taking this approach with my 701. 



Mark 

Alma, Ontario 



----- Original Message ----- 



> 

> Now that I'm about ready to start on the 701 fuselage I seem to remember 

> that ZAC OK'd the use of .093 6061 angle in place of the .040 formed 

> longerons. The .093 extrusion seems to be pretty elusive stuff as far as I 

> can see. Does anyone know of a supplier in Canada ( Ontario ) or close 

to 

> the border with the US ? 

> Peter - 701 wings 90 %, tail 90 %, 110 % to go."""

_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: From 2003 and Mark T

Sorry Kevin 

Structural is 6061 T6 will have fillet on inside radius

Architectural is 6063 and will have 90 deg corners.

 Zenith gets there 6061 custom extruded. 

You can change all the .093 for .125 6061 T6 in your 701 the .040 can be

changed in the longerons for .060 extruded 6061 T6 but the remainder

.040 is less then 4ft and should be bent on a brake to plans.

Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario

Zodiac CH650 C-GOXL, CH701 Rotax 912,

STOL CH750 Just started

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com 



--

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: From 2003 and Mark T

Thanks, I didn't realized there is an alloy difference.



do not archive



kevin

dan(at)hillsgun.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: From 2003 and Mark T

Mark: Not to cause trouble here, but the .125 6061-T6 I got has 90 degree

inside corners. When I got it I called Zenith and they said it was ok to

use. The inside radius is slightly stronger, but they said the 90 degree

corner was fine for this application since it is .125 instead of .093. Dan



--

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: From 2003 and Mark T

No Trouble Dan, any .125 that is available in my area has the fillet

which denotes that it is in fact 6061 T6, if there is no fillet then it

is 6063 and not strong enough to be used in the plane. I am not

concerned about the strength added by having a fillet but I am very

concerned about using a weaker composition of aluminium such as 6063.

If you are capable of getting an inside 90 deg 6061 then it is the first

time I have heard of it other then the custom extruded from Zenith. I am

not sure but I believe from memory that .093 6061 T6  is still stronger

then .125 6063 



Mark 

--

dan(at)hillsgun.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: From 2003 and Mark T

Hi Mark: It is interesting what is available in different areas (countries)

I was initially concerned because I bought my 6061-T6 from the local Pacific

Steel and then the discussion came up on the list about it having the fillet

and I discovered that mine did not so I called Zenith and they approved it's

use. I think those posts are about #332-335 in the archives. I seem to

remember the .093 that Zenith provides also has a 90 degree inside corner?

Dan.



--

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: From 2003 and Mark T

I didn't know that archived  posts were numbered, were are these located?



Kevin

do not archive



 	  dan(at)hillsgun.com wrote: 	
		   I think those posts are about #332-335 in the archives. 

--

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: Re: From 2003 and Mark T

Gentlemen,



If I may interject, I think I may be able to answer some questions and dis spell some myths or common misconceptions.



First let me say that the shape of an extrusion has nothing to do with its alloy.

So, what the inside corners look like means nothing at all.

To prove this I have aluminum angle with inside corners of both varieties in several different alloys to include 2024, 6061, 6063, 7075 & god knows what else.



The only thing that specifies the alloy is the markings on the extrusion from the mill specifying the alloy. unfortunately this writing is often unreadable and or washed off.

At this point nothing short of a chemical analysis from a metallurgical laboratory can tell you definitively what it is.



Structural and Architectural are a slang terms and have no meanings what so ever. 

This is why we use specifications like ASTM, SAE, AN or MIL -SPEC#'s and so on. these specifications have very specific definitions and limitations.



It is entirely possible to build a structure out of an angle with non- filleted inside corners and of the 6063 alloy. Therefore the angle would, by definition be structural. 

Hopefully this is not an aircraft structure!



What is readily available in your area also has nothing to do with alloy or extrusion shape. It only shows what readily sells the best in you area, and therefore that is what the retailers in your area stock.



The Angle that Zenith supplies with their kits is 6061 t6.

It has 90 degree inside corners.

It is readily available in Canada and most of Europe.

It is also readily available in the US if you know where to look and you are willing to buy the minimum quantity which is surely more than you will want for one airplane.

For small quantities Zenith is an excellent place to start. 

This extrusion shape is popular in the aircraft industry and is available in most aircraft alloys.

as I said before; I purchased a fist full of angle form the Boeing surplus store some time back and it all had the square inside corners and was of various alloys. 

Boeing buys huge quantities so they can get anything they want or can dream up even custom alloys and custom extrusion shapes.



The 6061 t6 Angle that most of you scratch builders are substituting for your wing spars is an extrusion that is common to the US in most every other industry with its filleted inside corners. This extrusion is mildly stronger and mildly heavier. 



The critical thing is to be sure of the alloy and only use 6061-t6 for your wing spars. 

If you can't read the alloy specification on the piece you can't be sure what the alloy is.

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am Post subject: Re: From 2003 and Mark T

I just got an email from Shirley at Zenith yesterday. I had emailed as a last attempt as I was under the impression that they did not sell the raw .093 angle. It is a little pricey and it must be truck shipped because of the 10+ft length for the spars but it is available from them and you don't need that much.



"Kevin,

You can purchase the 3/4x3/4x.093 ext angle for $3.80 ft.  If we ship in 12

foot lengths it would ship by truck freight."



Kevin

dan(at)hillsgun.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: From 2003 and Mark T

I used .125 and purchased it from the local Pacific Steel. They had it in

stock and it was about $100.00 for two 25 foot lengths. That was in July of

2008. Dan.



--

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: From 2003 and Mark T

I know that you can use .125 stock, but I am trying to save weight due to the heavy engine I will be using. So 3-5 lbs is worth a little extra $ .



do not archive

Kevin

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: Re: From 2003 and Mark T

Out of curiosity, those who have used the .125" wall angle, did you used the standard rivets?



Kevin

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:24 am Post subject: From 2003 and Mark T

Kevin

I used the standard pulled rivets because they have sufficient grip, but for

the cabin sides and spar, (i.e. solid rivets) I made chart for the sum of

the thicknesses and adjusted the length as needed.

Randall J Hebert






Out of curiosity, those who have used the .125" wall angle, did you used teh

standard rivets?



Kevin

randy(at)rjhebertassoc.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: From 2003 and Mark T

In an earlier post I said it was OK to use A5 instead of the A4 in the spar.

I too was unsatisfied with the alignment and needed to drill out to A5



The fact that I used a 0.125 Extrusion allowed me to make the decision that

it was ok to do this.



Randall J Hebert

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