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Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

Leonard:



If you can get some profile pics of the skis front on, side on and top down.

This could be interesting.  Also ask a few of the guys who fly them what

they think.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

What I was trying to describe was the shape of the bottom of those  

Wipaire Air Glide skis which (in the Aviat Husky picture on the cover  

of Aircraft Owner   http://www.aircraftowneronline.com/45/index.cfm   

(or the picture that Randy posted))   seem to have a stepped bottom.  

That is, it appears to have the outer half (from side-to-side) raised  

higher than the inner half. I think this is a trick of the camera  

angle. Try this: take a piece of paper and draw a square with a  

pencil on it. Make the square about 1" on all sides. Now draw a  

rectangle on the lower left side of the square. The rectangle should  

be about 1 - 1/2" long and attached to the square. You're trying to  

make it look roughly like the footprint of the ski pictured below:



Now cut out this shape, and curl the paper slightly in the long  

dimension so that it becomes concave like the top of the ski. It  

might help if you draw the wear bars onto the bottom of the ski like  

the Husky picture shows. Now hold the paper ski up in front of you,  

and closing one eye (so you eliminate the 3-dimensional aspect...this  

is what the camera does after all) look at the very front of the  

ski...the wide part....head on, just like in the *airplane's* left  

ski in the Husky ad. Now rotate it slowly upwards as if the plane it  

was on was taking off/rotating right toward you. At a very slight  

angle above horizontal, you will perceive what appears to be a step  

on the bottom, where the side where the wheel would be (the outside  

of the ski) looks like it is raised above the inner half of the ski  

bottom. I maintain that this isn't a step on the bottom, but an  

illusion...like the "bent" propellor in the Husky picture.



I'm not really thinking that they SHOULD be stepped



On Dec 23, 2008, at 6:27 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn,



 I will try and get you pics of the ski's tomorrow, I think they  

 have a few of them out at the airport.



 You are thinking way too much on the shape of the bottoms and how  

 they actuate.  It is much simpler, unless I am way off in left  

 field ( I spend alot of time there these days) and you lost me on  

 what you were trying to describe.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis  

 takes over.



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

My eyes are playing tricks on me...  The wheels are retracted so that side

of the ski appears to be higher.  The main gear not only moves up but

forward as well.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

Actually, Noel, the main gear doesn't move at all. It is the ski that  

moves down and rearward to make the wheels' new position of being  

forward and above the ski.

Your eyes ARE playing tricks on you, but I don't think it's because  

of what you think. I think...and this is only my view, with no proof  

without seeing the ski...that, well, I've gone into much detail to  

describe what I think..no point in repeating myself. Read and make  

the little paper ski as I described yesterday, and you'll see.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

On Dec 24, 2008, at 2:09 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 My eyes are playing tricks on me...  The wheels are retracted so  

 that side

 of the ski appears to be higher.  The main gear not only moves up but

 forward as well.



 Noel



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

Man, I am anxious to see the actual ski or have someone describe them or

provide more pictures.



I still think that they are made for two levels of support.  I will give you

the prop as optical illusion, but the shape of the tips of the skis says

that they are not symmetrical.    I think that that is because of the two

levels.



Randy - Assuming I am correct until proven wrong....



--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

Me too, Randy.

As much as I think the two levels would be a good idea, I just don't  

think they are built that way. Try this...look at the Aircraft Owner  

picture and cover up the lower  end of the ski....the "step"  

disappears, because there is no reference to depth anymore. I'd love  

to be proven wrong about this, because it would give me a new design  

thing to worry about, but until then, I'm stickin' to my  

guns....damn, I wish I had got down on the floor at Osh and really  

looked those things over better.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 24, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:



[quote] 

 <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com>



 Man, I am anxious to see the actual ski or have someone describe  

 them or

 provide more pictures.



 I still think that they are made for two levels of support.  I will  

 give you

 the prop as optical illusion, but the shape of the tips of the skis  

 says

 that they are not symmetrical.    I think that that is because of  

 the two

 levels.



 Randy - Assuming I am correct until proven wrong....



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Re: Skis - Solve the

 	  rjdaugh wrote: 	
		  Man, I am anxious to see the actual ski or have someone describe them or

provide more pictures.



I still think that they are made for two levels of support.  I will give you

the prop as optical illusion, but the shape of the tips of the skis says

that they are not symmetrical.    I think that that is because of the two

levels.



Randy - Assuming I am correct until proven wrong....



-- 	




The ski bottoms are NOT stepped, they are flat.  I was going to get pics for you guys yesterday, but the hangar was locked up tight and the guy is on vacation in Hawaii.

Me thinks the pic is playing tricks on you guys lol.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:33 am Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

The mind is a terrible thing to have tricks played on it.... : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Dec 25, 2008, at 11:53 AM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 rjdaugh wrote:

> Man, I am anxious to see the actual ski or have someone describe  

> them or

> provide more pictures.

>

> I still think that they are made for two levels of support.  I  

> will give you

> the prop as optical illusion, but the shape of the tips of the  

> skis says

> that they are not symmetrical.    I think that that is because of  

> the two

> levels.

>

> Randy - Assuming I am correct until proven wrong....

>

> --

 The ski bottoms are NOT stepped, they are flat.  I was going to get  

 pics for you guys yesterday, but the hangar was locked up tight and  

 the guy is on vacation in Hawaii.

 Me thinks the pic is playing tricks on you guys lol.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis  

 takes over.



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 21066#221066

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

Not to gloat, but we weren't ALL tricked by the picture, were we? : )  

Two optical illusions in one picture...Houdini would have been  

proud...or Ansel Adams....



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Dec 25, 2008, at 11:53 AM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 rjdaugh wrote:

> Man, I am anxious to see the actual ski or have someone describe  

> them or

> provide more pictures.

>

> I still think that they are made for two levels of support.  I  

> will give you

> the prop as optical illusion, but the shape of the tips of the  

> skis says

> that they are not symmetrical.    I think that that is because of  

> the two

> levels.

>

> Randy - Assuming I am correct until proven wrong....

>

> --

 The ski bottoms are NOT stepped, they are flat.  I was going to get  

 pics for you guys yesterday, but the hangar was locked up tight and  

 the guy is on vacation in Hawaii.

 Me thinks the pic is playing tricks on you guys lol.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis  

 takes over.



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 21066#221066

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

Funny you mention Ansel Adams...  Wasn't he the one who developed zone IV

and using longer lenses to try to get absloutly true representations 



Me I love to lie with the camera.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

Yup...pretty sure he developed (no pun) the Zone System, but not sure  

about the longer lens thing. He was big on large format...4x5, 8x10,  

etc., and maybe even 11x16.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Dec 27, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 Funny you mention Ansel Adams...  Wasn't he the one who developed  

 zone IV

 and using longer lenses to try to get absloutly true  

 representations 



 Me I love to lie with the camera.



 Noel



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi

Part of using the technical camera was to eliminate perspective problems.

Pun intended  

Being a proud Canuk I'm supposed to support Freeman Patterson as greatest

scenic photographer ever.  Addams is awesome though and in B&W he's miles

ahead of everyone.  Except for national pride he'd get my vote.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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