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Sport pilot

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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: Sport pilot

OK hopefully I can get this straight in my head once and for all. I

have a 601HDS that I am conviced stalls at below 51mph.



Can I sell it to a sport pilot or not, even though the model description

is HDS??



What proof do I need to provide that it does stall below 51mph...Stall

is listed in the logbook as 50mph. 



Thanks



Frank



601HDS for sale

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

Hi Frank,



Here is the actual definition of a light sport airplane.  I guess it 

is up to you and your plane's buyer (and insurance agent) to decide 

whether or not your plane qualifies as a light-sport airplane.

[Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or 

powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to 

meet the following:

(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than--

(i) 660 pounds (300 kilograms) for lighter-than-air aircraft;

(ii) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for 

operation on water; or

(iii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for 

operation on water.

(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power 

(VH) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric 

conditions at sea level.

(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS 

for a glider.

(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without 

the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS 

at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most 

critical center of gravity.

(5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including 

the pilot.

(6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered.

(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft 

other than a powered glider.

( A fixed or autofeathering propeller system if a powered glider.

(9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if 

a gyroplane.

(10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.

(11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for 

operation on water or a glider.

(12) Fixed or repositionable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft 

intended for operation on water.

(13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider. ]



----------

This was copied and pasted from the government web site:

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/7b29c0ffce0c430a86256edf00478339!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=-3



Good luck,



Paul

XL wings



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<frank.hinde(at)hp.com>



  OK hopefully I can get this straight in my head once and for all. I

have a 601HDS that I am conviced stalls at below 51mph.



Can I sell it to a sport pilot or not, even though the model description

is HDS??



What proof do I need to provide that it does stall below 51mph...Stall

is listed in the logbook as 50mph.



Thanks



Frank



601HDS for sale


	


------------------------------------------

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

Is that indicated airspeed or calibrated airspeed? The rule states a maximum

stall speed of 45 knots (51.8mph) calibrated airspeed (CAS) at its maximum

takeoff weight. Since in nearly all aircraft the ASI reads way low at near

stall speeds, 50 mph IAS in your plane will almost certainly be much higher

than 50 mph CAS. If you documented an actual stall speed at max gross weight

of less than 51.8 mph CAS in your aircraft log during your phase I testing,

then your plane meets this part of the requirement.

-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.

do not archive.



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>

 

 OK hopefully I can get this straight in my head once and for all. I

 have a 601HDS that I am conviced stalls at below 51mph.

 

 Can I sell it to a sport pilot or not, even though the model description

 is HDS??

 

 What proof do I need to provide that it does stall below 51mph...Stall

 is listed in the logbook as 50mph.

 

 Thanks

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

taffy8706(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

 	  Quote: 	
		   (4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady

 flight speed without 

 the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more

 than 45 knots CAS 

 at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff

 weight and most 

 critical center of gravity.


	


Frank-- I would say, unfortunately the HDS does not

qualify.   The Zenith web site shows the 601 HDS has a

gross weight of 1200 lbs.

It shows the stall speed of 54 mph at 1,050 lbs.



Do not archive

marinegunner(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

Frank,

Hate to say it, but I believe trying to make your 601HDS fit into the Sport

Airplane category is like trying to fit a 2.001x2.001x2.001 cold steel block

into a cold 2.0x2.0x2.0 ID steel box - just will not happen unless you can

officially shave the size of the block to fit the box. Close, but no cigar!

--

Semper Fi,

Steven R. Hulland

CH 701, Amado, AZ



This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned

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marinegunner(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

Whoops,

Do not Archive this email and the last one.

On 3/16/06, Steve Hulland <marinegunner(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

  Frank,

 Hate to say it, but I believe trying to make your 601HDS fit into the

 Sport Airplane category is like trying to fit a 2.001x2.001x2.001 cold

 steel block into a cold 2.0x2.0x2.0 ID steel box - just will not happen

 unless you can officially shave the size of the block to fit the box. Close,

 but no cigar!

 --

 Semper Fi,

 Steven R. Hulland

 CH 701, Amado, AZ



 This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies

 scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help




	


--

Semper Fi,

Steven R. Hulland

CH 701, Amado, AZ



This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned

prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



 OK hopefully I can get this straight in my head once and for all. I

have a 601HDS that I am conviced stalls at below 51mph.



Can I sell it to a sport pilot or not, even though the model description

is HDS??



What proof do I need to provide that it does stall below 51mph...Stall

is listed in the logbook as 50mph. 



Thanks



Frank



601HDS for sale

Frank,

  



    I think you'll not be able to sell it as a Light Sport Aircraft, 
	


having been registered as an Experimental,

but you'll be able to sell it to a person with the new Light Sport 

Aircraft pilot's license and they can fly it

same as any T-Craft or Cub because it does, in fact, stall at 50 or less.

   I've found that my plane will stall at under 50 as well and am 

considering dumping out from the Private

to the drivers license medical.  I'm fine, but everything is an 

inevitablity these days.



  Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

    do not archive

daberti(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

Frank et al

Why buck the FAA!  The FAA says a 601 qualifies as eligible to fly with a

light sport license.  Everyone else just gives their spin on the rules.  The

FAA does not say HD, HDS, XL it just says Zenith 601 period!



Dave



--

taffy8706(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

Non-LSA Aircraft: Holders of a sport pilot certificate

may fly an aircraft with an existing airworthiness

certificate if it meets the definition of a

light-sport aircraft (such as weight and speeds).  For

example, an amateur-built  STOL CH 701 or ZODIAC XL

aircraft may be flown by a Sport Pilot since the

aircraft meet the definition



The above is off from the Zenith site. 

 It doesn't matter what you call a certain airplane.

It has to meet the guidelines.



Let's not "beat this one to death" tring to stretch

the rules.   All Frank has to do is: load his airplane

to Goss placarded weight, take the potential buyer

with him, fly the airplane and see if it indeed will

not stall until 45kts.



do not archive



--- Dave <daberti(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:



[quote] 

 <daberti(at)sbcglobal.net>

 

 Frank et al

 Why buck the FAA!  The FAA says a 601 qualifies as

 eligible to fly with a

 light sport license.  Everyone else just gives their

 spin on the rules.  The

 FAA does not say HD, HDS, XL it just says Zenith 601

 period!

 

 Dave

 

 --

VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

<<<<   trying to make your 601HDS fit into the Sport

Airplane category is like trying to fit a 2.001x2.001x2.001 cold steel block

into a cold 2.0x2.0x2.0 ID steel box   >>>



Is that like trying to haul two ton of fertilizer in a one ton truck?

rbutterfield(at)mebtel.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

At 09:02 PM 3/16/2006, Fritz Gurschick wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  All Frank has to do is: load his airplane to Goss placarded weight, 

take the potential buyer with him, fly the airplane and see if it 

indeed will not stall until 45kts.


	


Almost all, anyway 



One more gotcha: the stall speed at gross has to be without the use 

of "lift enhancing devices", ie flaps.



So, in summary, for your experimental to be eligible for Sport Pilot 

certificate holders, it has to stall at less than 45 knots, at gross 

weight (& worst cg), without using flaps.



Regards,

RonB

JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

RonB, I don't think the HDS has flaps? Though I have heard a couple guys say 

that they were trying to modify to add.

jim(at)pellien.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:49 am Post subject: Sport pilot

Dave,



Where does the FAA say that?   I know the EAA website has such a listing,

but wasn't aware that the FAA has a list of eligible LSA aircraft?



Jim



Jim Pellien

Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes

The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com

www.MASPL.com

703-313-4818

--

TH-SR

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 22
Location: WI

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: Re: Sport pilot

FAA LSA Listing:



http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/rec/



Todd Henning

shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: Sport pilot

I doubt it if the older HD and HDS can qualify, because one of the "reason

for the season" when the XL came about was to qualify for SPORT PLANE.

Added flaps and airfoil change made it qualify.  Bob U.

---

shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:23 am Post subject: Sport pilot

I thought it said "in landing configuration" on the 45 kts stall speed.

Bob U.



---

bjohnson(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: Sport pilot

Nope....



[quote] --

jim(at)pellien.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: Sport pilot

Todd,



Thank you for giving me that link.



Jim



Jim Pellien

Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes

The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com

www.MASPL.com

703-313-4818

--

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