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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions. |
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Hello Ron,
I dont think that drilling out a few rivets is a big deal, is part of the "fun" of learning to build our airplanes... 
Also, this mod is a easy one, I dont see any reason why not to install them. I sure would see the way to install them, up tp the point if I had my airplane already flying.
Fortunate we are starting to assemble the wings.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
--- On Fri, 1/2/09, Ronald Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Ronald Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 7:23 PM
| Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ronald Steele <rsteele(at)rjsit.com>
The 650 plans are more-or-less like the 601 plans. The drawings show the
hingeless version, with the hinged in the back on an "options" page.
Gussets are shown on both pages. The hingeless are attached to the rear spar
with A5/pitch 40 with A5/pitch 20 at the inboard end.
I'd have to scan the drawings to post an image. Since Jon is going to
include them in the news letter, hopefully folks can wait.
My ailerons have have been build for months. I don't think I'll be
drilling out the rivets to add the gussets. Also, someone mentioned a concern
about the thickness of the gusset offsetting the skin (true enough) but this is
not addressed in the drawings, so presumably it's not considered a problem.
Ron
On Jan 2, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Sabrina wrote:
| Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Sabrina"
<chicago2paris(at)msn.com>
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| Quote: |
Ron,
Do the 650 plans show the gussets on both the PH and flex hinge ailerons?
Could you post the PH aileron gusset drawing?
Did Zenith push any particular aileron type when you purchased your
kit/plans?
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[quote][b]
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jaybannist(at)cs.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:07 am Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions. |
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Hey gang,
Keep in mind the purpose of this gusset modification. It is to safeguard ailerons when the airplane is tied down outside and no control stops are used. If at any time your airplane is parked outside and you use control stops, this modification is unnecessary.
Jay in Dallas
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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions. |
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???? Will wait some more comments...
Do not archive.
--- On Sat, 1/3/09, jaybannist(at)cs.com <jaybannist(at)cs.com> wrote:
[quote]From: jaybannist(at)cs.com <jaybannist(at)cs.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions.
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 1:06 PM
Hey gang,
Keep in mind the purpose of this gusset modification. It is to safeguard ailerons when the airplane is tied down outside and no control stops are used. If at any time your airplane is parked outside and you use control stops, this modification is unnecessary.
Jay in Dallas
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jaybannist(at)cs.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions. |
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Sabrina,
Sorry, but you are jumping on the wrong guy. I can't respond, 'cause I didn't design or issue the change. I am not "presuming" anything. I am merely repeating what I have read.
Jay
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sdthatcher
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 91
Location: Port Saint Lucie
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions. |
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Hi Sabrina,
Do you feel that because of the relative stiffness of the FH over the PH, that is the reason for not adding the gussets to the FH design? I'm asking since I have the FH.
I had my 601XL tied down overnight in Ocala last October, and after getting back in the air en route to NC, I noticed that there was considerable slack in the aileron cables. (I did not use any gust locks even though it was very gusty). Also, the line people had tied down the 601 using considerable force to keep it from moving in the gusts. Do you think there might be any relationship between gust loads on the aileron & tie down loads that could result in possible slackening of cables?
BTW, saw your website and your aircraft is beautiful! I hope those 40 hours are being flown off quickly so you can get in the air... or do you have a different set of rules since it is a manufactured aircraft from your company?
| Sabrina wrote: | I may be the only one of the list now who has not flown their aircraft, yet sends others into the air after a fatal crash. It is one thing to put yourself in a craft, another to put someone else. The past year has been more than I bargained for, but very educational.
The more I learn about the 601XL the more I find out that countless modification were made. Some from CZAW, some form CH.
I recently approached Zenith for a new set of flex ailerons. I was quoted over $300. I did not see the new gussets included in the quote.
I can't imagine how the flex hinge benefits from the new gussets. In fact, if installed incorrectly, could shorten the life of the flex hinge.
The piano hinge gusset is another story. I designed my gussets in Q1 2008. Zenith later made a similar change but did not swap out the inboard aft aileron A4 attach rivets with AS5 rivets.
We should all have two extra AS5s laying around.
The flexing of the piano hinge aileron as described in the Zenair bulletin, whether it be on the ground or in flight, can put great tension on the inboard aft attach A4 rivet. If that rivet fails in tension in flight, the others are at risk. It is very easy to translate 100+ pounds of force through the stick to the aileron without flutter playing a part. I suspect that some of the fatal crashes may have started with the control stick: The flying and/or control surface being flown or forced off the aircraft with control stick input.
Although many don't want to open their ailerons up for installation of the gussets, what harm could installing a single AS5 at the inboard aft attach point on each piano hinge aileron do?
What benefits do you see?
What is the rated strength of an A4 in shear and tension? Plus or minus what? |
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_________________
Scott Thatcher, Port Saint Lucie, FL
601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
N601EL, EAA203 140 hours and not flying currently. |
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amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions. |
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thatcher;
the cables are loose because they do loosen over time thus needing retensioning, say ever 100 hrs. Also you can tie down the plane as hard as you like. blowing around will be worse since it will jerk hard in a gust. the gust and tie down or dispositive of each other.
Juan
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