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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

To the Cad whizzes out there.

  

 I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to  "professionalize" my wiring diagrams using TurboCad.  I'm starting to feel  really old here cause I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad program.  I  really want to make it work and not get something else.  I've imported a  drawing from Bob's collection in DWG format.  All I want to do is erase a  few lines, re-draw them slightly elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra  circuits.  Erase, copy, cut, paste, snap are eluding me even though  there are a bazillion tools all around.  Can I not just put a square around  a section of the drawing, cut and paste etc?

  

 Jack Daniels is starting to tempt  me!

  

 Bevan  

[quote] [b]

harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: Using TurboCad

Morning, Bevan...

 

 It's been awhile since I played with TurboCad, I use VisualCad now, but the basics are pretty much the same in just about any CAD program. 

 

 First, you may not be able to work directly with the dwg file, in case you are.  Save it in Turbocad format before doing anything else. Then close the dwg file, open the Turbocad file and work with that.  Although I have no problem editing Bob's drawings directly in VisualCAD, TurboCad may be different. Different CAD programs treat dwg drawings differently and may not allow editing until in the native format.

 

 I just checked one of Bob's Z drawings in my VCADD, and was able to edit it without any conversions, but it may be different for you in TCADD. 

 

 >>Can I not just put a square around a section of the drawing, cut and paste etc?<<

 

 Yes and no!  Remember, unlike the normal graphics we see on computers, CAD programs are a collection of components like lines, squares, circles and other geometrics as well as symbols that are complete in themselves.  With a "normal" raster graphic (like a jpg or bmp file) simply drawing a "square" ("window" in CAD speak) around what you want to delete, then hitting the delete key removes everything inside the window.   

 

 However, with CADD some of the components may lie OUTSIDE your selection window (like unseen points used to construct the object you are seeing...known as construction points. Or the other end of a line or symbol).  When editing, CAD programs consider only COMPLETE objects and their components that are inside the window as having been selected. 

 

 For example, putting a selection window around a straight line but not including one end of it, will not select that line.  Also, curves and text often have reference points considerably removed from what you see. Unless these are included in the window, the object you see and want to work with will not be selected.  

 

 In summary, any object whose visible AND invisible parts are inside the selection window will be selected and can be edited or removed.

 

 I find it easier to just use the selection tool (usually an arrow) to point to (then click on) an object to see what is included.  Whatever gets highlighted is the entire object that has to be selected to edit. Right clicking then usually produces a menu of options for the highlighted (selected) object. Or you can use the delete key, ctrl-c or ctrl-x if you want to remove it, copy or cut respectively. 

 

 To display the normally invisible construction points, which must be included in the selection, look for the command "Display Construction Points", or something similar.  In Visual CAD it is the two letter command "DC". 

 

 If the item you've selected by clicking on it with the selection pointer appears to be complex, i.e. made of several lines, circles, curves, etc, that are all highlighted at once, it has been been made into a symbol. If you want to remove the entire symbol, you're all set, as it has been selected in it's entirety.  If you want to edit only a portion of it, then you first have to "de-symbolize" it (now that's a new word!).  Look for a command that will do that.  In VCADD, it's "Explode Symbol" (YX).  You will then see the symbol broken down into it's component parts, and you can edit the individual lines, circles, text, etc. 

 

 Hope this helps a bit...remembering Turbocad when I worked with it, I seem to recall that it had a pretty good help system, so any questions you have can probably be answered with a bit of search.  The learning curve will eventually get you to the point where you can be comfortable with the level of drawing that you need. There are many commands and procedures in VCADD that I don't use, but with the drawing I do, I probably never will. 

 

 Harley Dixon

 

 

 B Tomm wrote: [quote]         To the Cad whizzes out there.

    

   I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to "professionalize" my wiring diagrams using TurboCad.  I'm starting to feel really old here cause I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad program.  I really want to make it work and not get something else.  I've imported a drawing from Bob's collection in DWG format.  All I want to do is erase a few lines, re-draw them slightly elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra circuits.  Erase, copy, cut, paste, snap are eluding me even though there are a bazillion tools all around.  Can I not just put a square around a section of the drawing, cut and paste etc?

    

   Jack Daniels is starting to tempt me!

    

   Bevan  

    	  Quote: 	
		   	
   

 [b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: Using TurboCad

Hi Bevan,

The (AutoCAD) Dwg format needs to be saved as a TurboCAD format. That 

said, some of the characteristics of line manipulation will not carry over

and you may need to break the drawing down to smaller elements or just 

make a new drawing. Starting with the TurboCAD is the better idea and when

you get used to the program, you'll find it twice as fast as AutoCAD and 

much more intuitive.



Larry McFarland 601HDS



B Tomm wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   To the Cad whizzes out there.

  

 I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to 

 "professionalize" my wiring diagrams using TurboCad.  I'm starting to 

 feel really old here cause I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad 

 program.  I really want to make it work and not get something else.  

 I've imported a drawing from Bob's collection in DWG format.  All I 

 want to do is erase a few lines, re-draw them slightly elsewhere and 

 copy a few fuses to add the extra circuits.  Erase, copy, cut, paste, 

 snap are eluding me even though there are a bazillion tools all 

 around.  Can I not just put a square around a section of the drawing, 

 cut and paste etc?

  

 Jack Daniels is starting to tempt me!

  

 Bevan 

  

 *

 *

Allen Fulmer

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Alexander City, AL

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

I have  had pretty much the same frustrating experience with Turbo CAD!  I  bought the version 10 like BobN suggested for $10 or so, but found the program  and internet devoid of any help or tutorials.  Finally gave  up.

  

 I get  regular emails from the IMSI folks trying to get me to upgrade to the latest  version, 15.2, for 50 bucks or so.  Anyone care to offer an opinion on  versions?

  

 I need  to do something as my hand done drawings (sketches) won't really do for the  finished product.

  

 Allen  Fulmer

 RV7  Wiring

 Alexander City, AL

 [quote]   --

_________________
RV7 QB Fuselage
Eggenfellner H6 on orde
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

Hi Allen,

TurboCAD is a fine program for one off drawings. Having experienced Pro 

E and AutoCAD, I've found TurboCAD is a versatile program if you sit down

and read the reference manual completely. Spend a little time with it 

and you can't help but like it. If it's not part of your background, 

i.e., engineering or design

you may take a little longer to get on with it, but don't get 

discouraged.  I used the Aeroelectric guidance and did a 

schematic/drawing in TurboCAD

without too many of the formal symbols.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/primary-wiring.gif

Allen Fulmer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have had pretty much the same frustrating experience with Turbo 

 CAD!  I bought the version 10 like BobN suggested for $10 or so, but 

 found the program and internet devoid of any help or tutorials.  

 Finally gave up.

  

 I get regular emails from the IMSI folks trying to get me to upgrade 

 to the latest version, 15.2, for 50 bucks or so.  Anyone care to offer 

 an opinion on versions?

  

 I need to do something as my hand done drawings (sketches) won't 

 really do for the finished product.

  

 Allen Fulmer

 RV7 Wiring

 Alexander City, AL

 *

 *

Allen Fulmer

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Alexander City, AL

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

Thanks for the encouragement, Larry.



Any comment on version 10 vs. latest (15.2 at this time)?



Thanks,



Allen



[quote]>>--

_________________
RV7 QB Fuselage
Eggenfellner H6 on orde
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

Allen,

I started with version 8 a long time ago, but kept upgrading and using 

TurboCAD to put models into a TrueSpace

program. Pro E was dropped at work and I got involved in modeling 

military equipment that the USMC needed. Several

upgrades included V10 and it's still a good program.  I now use version 

15 (mechanical) and it supports pretty much anything you

want to do. A small price for a program that does 3-D modeling so well. 

It even has a good rendering capability that

provides material surfacing, accurate reflections and shadowing. that 

can be used within (Light Wave) an animation

program that I use. If you intend to advance your work or employment 

with engineering drawings, TurboCAD

is a fine program to know.  If you only need it for the current wiring 

diagrams, and your aircraft project, then Version 10

is likely all you'll ever really need.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

do not archive



Allen Fulmer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks for the encouragement, Larry.



 Any comment on version 10 vs. latest (15.2 at this time)?



 Thanks,



 Allen

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

I purchased the tutorial from IMSI.  I found it to be quite good for a relative beginner.  There are a lot of subtleties that are hard to ferret out of the manual alone, and the tutorial leads you through many of these and gives you a very good starting point.  

   

Good luck,  

   

Roger  

   

--

Allen Fulmer

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Alexander City, AL

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

Thanks Larry,



Guess I'll give it a try again.  And maybe contact IMSI re: upgrade and/or

tutorials.



And I've bookmarked your web site to see what you have done.



Allen



DO NOT ARCHIVE

_________________
RV7 QB Fuselage
Eggenfellner H6 on orde
N808AF reserved
Alexander City, AL

Sam

Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 135

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: Using TurboCad

I have used various CAD systems over the years and when I retired I was seeking a good free one for home use.  I came across a professional program called Siemens' Solid Edge Designer for 2D.  I really like it.  It uses something called "Relationship handles" which is useful, but difficult for me to describe here.

 

The company makes it free to individuals and companies in the hope that you like it so much that you'll upgrade to their 3D system.  It does work with all of Bob's drawings.



The bad new is there is no manual available.  The good news is the online help is adequate and, best yet, there is also ae e-mail list run by tech experts at SolidEdge.

  	  Quote: 	
		  	
Sam Hoskins

Murphysboro, IL



On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:40 PM, B Tomm <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net (fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net)> wrote:

 [quote]     To the Cad whizzes out there.

  

 I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to  "professionalize" my wiring diagrams using TurboCad.  I'm starting to feel  really old here cause I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad program.  I  really want to make it work and not get something else.  I've imported a  drawing from Bob's collection in DWG format.  All I want to do is erase a  few lines, re-draw them slightly elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra  circuits.  Erase, copy, cut, paste, snap are eluding me even though  there are a bazillion tools all around.  Can I not just put a square around  a section of the drawing, cut and paste etc?

  

 Jack Daniels is starting to tempt  me!

  

 Bevan  

 	  Quote: 	
		   

	


[b]

_________________
Sam Hoskins
www.samhoskins.blogspot.com

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Using TurboCad

Eric's Guaranteed Ten-Step Program for Learning TurboCAD (or any CAD program):



Intro:



1) Almost all CAD programs are wonderful.  The more expensive ones have only a tiny bit more than the cheapest (or the FREE ones). Any CAD is a million times better than no CAD. CAD, along with a web browser, email, a spreadsheet and a word processing program are just about required to express your technical talents nowadays.  



2) Pareto's Principle: 20% of any tools will do 80% of the work, so you don't have to learn it all. Once you can do the basics, you will intuitively know there are additional tools for more complicated stuff.



3) If you really want to get good at mechanical drawing, get a copy of ANSI-Y14.5M Dimensioning and Tolerancing. The 1982 edition is $20 and 99% current today. The 1994 edition is about $90 on Amazon. This is not required for electrical schematics and other arts.



4) You'll need a good monitor, a decently fast computer (Especially for 3D), and a mouse. But you can use any printer, and the fancy devices you sometimes see in CAD setups are not needed.



Basics:



5) The computer screen is a window to look through, not a piece of drawing paper to look upon. This simple idea often baffles new users. Understand this thoroughly or you will be lost.



6) CAD has no display scale. Print scales are only rarely followed (see point 5). A CAD information block never (or rarely) says "SCALE", unless the boss is an idiot.



Learning it:



7) If you have a paper tutorial manual (remember the software has the manual in it, usually in a more usable form). Turn on the CAD program. Tear the covers off the manual and drop them into the trash. Then look at a page, understand and DO what is on it and drop it into the trash. Don't puzzle over anything...you can do that later. If a tool does not seem relevant, toss it into the trash. Very satisfying.



 Turn off the CAD program and sleep on it. You'll get better at it as you sleep.



9) Remember that there is a simple way to do everything, and CAD has tools to make those simple task even easier (and more sophisticated), but you can always revert to doing things in simple ways.  As a learning game--Draw a circle: It can be done with a center and one point on the circumference, Two semicircles, four quarter-circles, the letter "o", the zero, a three point circle, a freehand sketch...see how many you can come up with.



10) Start using it. Begin slowly and don't beat yourself, and don't push yourself if it is not fun--because you'll never learn it unless you enjoy it.

 

Appendix:



CAD provides an infinite variety of capabilities. Sometimes machined parts are drawn as CAD drawings, but a layer under the drawing can be the Bill of Materials, the revision history, design notes, whatever. A drawing can have a huge number of layers. 



A thing drawn in CAD can be saved and never has to be drawn again. CAD data can be input to automatic machinery to make a part. CAD can be drawn parametrically to make different sized parts. The applications are endless.



Things can be drawn in CAD that simply CANNOT be drawn by hand. These vary from the simplest second-order curves to complex spirals, and 2d and 3d geometric forms, Bezier splines, log curves, etc. 



Finally: 



Have faith! Sell or give away your set of mechanical drawing tools, including Tee Square and drawing boards, templates and engineering rulers, drawing pens, triangles, french curves, centers, trammels, lettering guides, electric eraser, on and on....That day ain't never coming back.



ps (Google "TurboCAD tutorial" NOT "turbo CAD tutorial").

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

ainut(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: Using TurboCad

I've tried several CAD programs over the years, an  own a version of TurboCAD.  What I dislike intensely about these is the  horrible user interface.  None of them are intuitive.  Just to layout  a simple wall with adjoining wall is my initial test.  All of them  fail.  <sigh>

  

 David M.

  

 [quote]   ---

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: Using TurboCad

Try AutoCAD Lite.  I have been using AutoCAD for about 25 years and find it very intuitive for the basic functions. (I suppose that experience could have something to do with that ;>)  AutoCAD Lite has all the basic functions plus.  It is probably more expensive than others, but it WILL do what you want it to do. 

 

 Jay in Dallas

 Do not archive

 

   

 

   

 

 --

Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Using TurboCad

Let's not make this a back-and-forth about which CAD program is best. TurboCAD is fine (and it's NOT even what I use...). ALL CAD programs are good, and the differences between them make comparisons difficult. Any first-time user might find the learning curve steep, but see my (above)suggestions. Simple programs are easy to use but limited, complex programs are harder to learn but powerful and expensive.



But learn SOMETHING, and they all talk to each other...so what the heck.



"....be sure to make a copy of everything before getting rid of it."

   --Samuel Goldwyn

_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

Thanks for advice.  I am downloading now and will give  it a try.

  

 Bevan



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam  Hoskins

Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 5:58 AM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Using  TurboCad

 

I have used various CAD systems over the years and when I retired I  was seeking a good free one for home use.  I came across a professional  program called Siemens'  Solid Edge Designer for 2D.  I really like it.  It uses something  called "Relationship handles" which is useful, but difficult for me to describe  here.



The company makes it free to individuals and companies in the hope  that you like it so much that you'll upgrade to their 3D system.  It does  work with all of Bob's drawings.



The bad new is there is no manual  available.  The good news is the online help is adequate and, best yet,  there is also ae e-mail list run by tech experts at SolidEdge.

  	  Quote: 	
		  	
Sam Hoskins

Murphysboro,  IL



 On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:40 PM, B Tomm <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net (fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net)>  wrote:

 [quote]      To the Cad    whizzes out there.

    

   I'm taking    advantage of the bad weather and trying to "professionalize" my wiring    diagrams using TurboCad.  I'm starting to feel really old here cause I'm    so frustrated with this TurboCad program.  I really want to make it work    and not get something else.  I've imported a drawing from Bob's    collection in DWG format.  All I want to do is erase a few lines, re-draw    them slightly elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra circuits.     Erase, copy, cut, paste, snap are eluding me even though there are a    bazillion tools all around.  Can I not just put a square around a section    of the drawing, cut and paste etc?

    

   Jack    Daniels is starting to tempt me!

    

   Bevan  

 	  Quote: 	
		   

	






href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

emrath(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: Using TurboCad

FYI, I downloaded for free the Turbocad LE or Learning edition.  The

tutorial is on line. Worked for me, but it is a bit cumbersome but it was a

good price to value ratio.

Marty

Brentwood TN

Time: 04:45:24 PM PST US

From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net>

Subject: RE: Using TurboCad



Thanks for advice.  I am downloading now and will give it a try.



Bevan



  _____  



From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam

Hoskins

Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 5:58 AM

Subject: Re: Using TurboCad

I have used various CAD systems over the years and when I retired I was

seeking a good free one for home use.  I came across a professional program

called Siemens'

<http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/velocity/solidedge/fre

e2d/index.shtml> Solid Edge Designer for 2D.  I really like it.  It uses

something called "Relationship handles" which is useful, but difficult for

me to describe here.



The company makes it free to individuals and companies in the hope that you

like it so much that you'll upgrade to their 3D system.  It does work with

all of Bob's drawings.



The bad new is there is no manual available.  The good news is the online

help is adequate and, best yet, there is also ae e-mail list run by tech

experts at SolidEdge.

Sam Hoskins

Murphysboro, IL

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 8:40 PM, B Tomm <fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net> wrote:

To the Cad whizzes out there.



I'm taking advantage of the bad weather and trying to "professionalize" my

wiring diagrams using TurboCad.  I'm starting to feel really old here cause

I'm so frustrated with this TurboCad program.  I really want to make it work

and not get something else.  I've imported a drawing from Bob's collection

in DWG format.  All I want to do is erase a few lines, re-draw them slightly

elsewhere and copy a few fuses to add the extra circuits.  Erase, copy, cut,

paste, snap are eluding me even though there are a bazillion tools all

around.  Can I not just put a square around a section of the drawing, cut

and paste etc?



Jack Daniels is starting to tempt me!



Bevan  

 

Marty  ҿӬ

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Using TurboCad

I use plain old graph paper, with a sharp pencil, and a ruler and

some symbol templates and draw electrical drawings REALLY fast! 



Spend more time trying to get software installed and running on my 

PC, let alone the learning curve to use them, than I can pencil out

a light airplane electrical system by hand.



Regards,

Jeff

fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:30 am Post subject: Using TurboCad

Thanks Jeff,



I've been making some headway with TurboCad,  but considering the time and

frustration level, may go back to paper too.  Some entrepreneurial type may

want to develop a very simple cad program for homebuilders including

preloaded drawings and symbols.



Bevan 



--

rv-9a-online(at)telus.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: Using TurboCad

Bevan, have you tried expressPCB's schematic program?

It's easy to learn and free.



Here's a link to get you started, including my RV-9A schematic

http://vx-aviation.com/#Free%20Stuff



Vern



---

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:26 am Post subject: Using TurboCad

I think the simplest program to use for diagramming might be Microsoft's

Visio, but it's not cheap.



I have been using CAD full-time for over 25 years and I know I could sketch

out a diagram faster with pencil and paper, but I would use CAD to make it

legible and presentable, just like Bob N. does.



Terry



--

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